[timjand]

After an EBU teams match has been scored, it is discovered the next day that some boards where played in the wrong direction.

Specifically, teams of 8 match, 24 boards, played in 4 rounds of 6 boards each. In round 2 at one table, the E/W pair plays the N/S hands and vice versa.

You could argue that since both pairs (teams) are equally to blame, and since there is no inherent advantage to either side (depending on luck as to which side has the better cards), that the scores could stand.

On the other hand, IMP scoring in this case makes little sense with three pairs playing in the same direction.

Would it be fair then to scratch those boards and score as an 18 board match? Though this seems harsh on pairs that got good scores at other tables played in the correct direction.

Other possibilities?

Tim

[pran]

timjand, on 2016-November-12, 06:35, said:

After an EBU teams match has been scored, it is discovered the next day that some boards where played in the wrong direction.

Specifically, teams of 8 match, 24 boards, played in 4 rounds of 6 boards each. In round 2 at one table, the E/W pair plays the N/S hands and vice versa.

You could argue that since both pairs (teams) are equally to blame, and since there is no inherent advantage to either side (depending on luck as to which side has the better cards), that the scores could stand.

On the other hand, IMP scoring in this case makes little sense with three pairs playing in the same direction.

Would it be fair then to scratch those boards and score as an 18 board match? Though this seems harsh on pairs that got good scores at other tables played in the correct direction.

Other possibilities?

Tim

I am not sure what is meant by "teams of 8 match". Does it imply something like scoring IMP across the field for the teams?

The way I know matches for teams each team has two active pairs in any match and a match involves only two teams: The home team with pairs seated NS in open room and EW in closed room and the away team with pairs seated the opposite way.

The only requirement for scoring each board is that the versions in both rooms are identical in every way, but they need not be identical to corresponding boards played in other matches. Each board is scored from the two results obtained by these pairs only. If a board is not played in exactly the same version by the two teams in the two rooms then the result on this board is void and an artificial adjusted score must be assigned.

We often see alternative scoring in parallell to the main scoring in such events, usually as IMP across the field, and here each board is scored as if it were an event for individual pairs. For this scoring the handling of boards played in the wrong direction is trivial, however due care must be taken on any fouled board.

[timjand]

pran, on 2016-November-12, 08:45, said:

I am not sure what is meant by "teams of 8 match". Does it imply something like scoring IMP across the field for the teams?

4 pairs in each team. Let's say team A has pairs A1-A4, team B has pairs B1-B4. Each board is played 4 times, EW A1 vs NS B1, EW A2 vs NS B2, NS A3 vs EW B3, NS A4 vs EW B4. The result for each board is calculated by aggregating the score across all 4 times it was played and converting to IMPs. So let's say 3NT is bid and made exactly at all four tables, the result is zero. If one pair played in 2NT+1, non-vuln, then the result would be +-250, or 6 IMPs. The pairs rotate after 6 boards so each pair on team A plays each pair on team B over the 24 boards.

Tim

[gordontd]

timjand, on 2016-November-12, 09:34, said:

4 pairs in each team. Let's say team A has pairs A1-A4, team B has pairs B1-B4. Each board is played 4 times, EW A1 vs NS B1, EW A2 vs NS B2, NS A3 vs EW B3, NS A4 vs EW B4. The result for each board is calculated by aggregating the score across all 4 times it was played and converting to IMPs. So let's say 3NT is bid and made exactly at all four tables, the result is zero. If one pair played in 2NT+1, non-vuln, then the result would be +-250, or 6 IMPs. The pairs rotate after 6 boards so each pair on team A plays each pair on team B over the 24 boards.

Tim

3.7.2 and in particular 3.7.2.5 of the White Book gives you a method for calculating the scores for this form of scoring.

[gordontd]

pran, on 2016-November-12, 08:45, said:

I am not sure what is meant by "teams of 8 match".

The clue is in the name: there are eight players in each team. There are three common methods of scoring it: best is for all four permutations of the four pairs' scores to be calculated, which is how the EBU score our Tollemache Cup, the qualifier for which will be next weekend; a second method is to simply add all four scores and then convert to IMPs, either using the ordinary IMP scale or a special one adapted for this purpose; finally they can be scored by linking each EW with one NS from each team and effectively score as two teams of four, adding the IMPs together before converting to VPs (if desired).

[timjand]

gordontd, on 2016-November-12, 10:24, said:

3.7.2 and in particular 3.7.2.5 of the White Book gives you a method for calculating the scores for this form of scoring.

Very helpful, thanks.

Tim

[pran]

timjand, on 2016-November-12, 09:34, said:

4 pairs in each team. Let's say team A has pairs A1-A4, team B has pairs B1-B4. Each board is played 4 times, EW A1 vs NS B1, EW A2 vs NS B2, NS A3 vs EW B3, NS A4 vs EW B4. The result for each board is calculated by aggregating the score across all 4 times it was played and converting to IMPs. So let's say 3NT is bid and made exactly at all four tables, the result is zero. If one pair played in 2NT+1, non-vuln, then the result would be +-250, or 6 IMPs. The pairs rotate after 6 boards so each pair on team A plays each pair on team B over the 24 boards.

Tim

Let me see if I understand this correct:
Results are scored and converted to IMP for each of the "matches":
A1 vs B1 <-> A3 vs B3
A2 vs B2 <-> A4 vs B4
A1 vs B1 <-> A4 vs B4
A2 vs B2 <-> A3 vs B3
giving 4 IMP results which are added together for the result of the match between Team A and Team B?

[PeterAlan]

pran, on 2016-November-12, 15:28, said:

Let me see if I understand this correct:
Results are scored and converted to IMP for each of the "matches":
A1 vs B1 <-> A3 vs B3
A2 vs B2 <-> A4 vs B4
A1 vs B1 <-> A4 vs B4
A2 vs B2 <-> A3 vs B3
giving 4 IMP results which are added together for the result of the match between Team A and Team B?

No, you haven't understood it correctly. The raw scores at each of the four tables are aggregated (with appropriate sign to differentiate between N/S and E/W of course) and that sum of four scores is then converted to IMPs. That's how timjands gets to a net 250 in his example (+400, -400, +-400, -+150 -> +- 250). It's a common scoring method for league matches in EBU-land.

[pran]

PeterAlan, on 2016-November-12, 16:02, said:

No, you haven't understood it correctly. The raw scores at each of the four tables are aggregated (with appropriate sign to differentiate between N/S and E/W of course) and that sum of four scores is then converted to IMPs. That's how timjands gets to a net 250 in his example (+400, -400, +-400, -+150 -> +- 250). It's a common scoring method for league matches in EBU-land.

Fancy. I have never heard about this type of matches, and frankly I cannot really see what they add to bridge over the traditional matches for teams of four?

I shall stick to the traditional matches.

[Vampyr]

pran, on 2016-November-12, 16:39, said:

Fancy. I have never heard about this type of matches, and frankly I cannot really see what they add to bridge over the traditional matches for teams of four?

I shall stick to the traditional matches.

Do what you like. Teams-of-eight matches can be fun and social, and they let more people to have the privilege of representing their, club, county, whatever.