Multi 2d followup - useless sequence?
#1
Posted 2017-January-30, 03:27
3♦**-3♥?
*=multi
**=minimum with spades
I strugle to find a useful definition of 3♥. Drop-dead is an option, maybe? Natural invite or natural forcing is of questionable value since it is not clear what such a hand would have done if opener had shown a max (or if opps had interfered). Biedemeijer defined it as a general game try in spades, asking for a "good minimum", but that strikes me as useless since if you really want to seperate three different strengths, it would be better to play
2♦-2NT
3♥*-3♠**
*=intermediate or max with spades
**=non-forcing
since that will at least right-side the contract.
I suppose a help suit trial or such is also a possible meaning? Or maybe a cuebid agreeing spades?
#2
Posted 2017-January-30, 04:00
helene_t, on 2017-January-30, 03:27, said:
I assume you play
2♦-2N; ?:
3♣ = MIN w/ H
3♦ = MIN w/ S
and either
1)
3♥ = MAX w/ H
3♠ = MAX w/ S [will bury any 5-3 H fit]
or
2)
3♥ = MAX w/ S
3♠ = MAX w/ H [will bury any 5-3 S fit].
Change those to
1')
3♥ = MAX w/ H
...3♠ = GF, 5+ S
3♠ = MAX w/ S and 2- H
3N = MAX w/ S and 3 H
and
2')
3♥ = MAX w/ S
...3♠ = GF, 5+ H
3♠ = MAX w/ H and 2- S
3N = MAX w/ H and 3 S.
Then it makes perfect sense to play
2♦-2N; 3♦-3♥ = GF, 5+ H.
#3
Posted 2017-January-30, 04:57
#4
Posted 2017-January-30, 05:41
But if 3♥ is natural GF, what would such a hand do after
2♦-2NT
3♥*
*max with spades
?
I suppose you could, if 3♠ is now forcing, making 4m show a choice of game with hearts. Or, alternatively, if 3♠ is not forcing, play 4♣ as a slam try in hearts or COG while 4♦ is a slam try in spades but I think it becomes a bit cluttered.
I'd rather just respond 2♥ if I have a constructive hand with long hearts and short spades.
#5
Posted 2017-January-30, 06:51
If you have a direct way to show hearts the call is useless. Its also not coming up a whole lot so keeping it as DNE is fine too.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#6
Posted 2017-January-30, 07:05
#7
Posted 2017-January-30, 07:08
2♦-2N
3♦(on a range of 1-4 with 1 being the weakest, a 1,2 or 4 weak 2 in spades)-3♥(which ?)
3♠ - 1
4♠ - 2
anything else - 4
#8
Posted 2017-January-30, 07:24
Phil, on 2017-January-30, 06:51, said:
If you have a direct way to show hearts the call is useless. Its also not coming up a whole lot so keeping it as DNE is fine too.
Yes, 3♥ is P/C.
I thought it was standard that a constructive hand with hearts starts with 2♥, expecting to get another bite? Yes, we may play 2♥ in our 12-card fit but even then, opps usually have a 10-card spades fit so they might rescue us.
#9
Posted 2017-February-01, 18:15
1. General game try - this allows you to split your weak 2 range into 3 parts instead of 2. I believe this is the most commonly used meaning.
2. Suit quality ask - this gets you back some of what you lost by not playing Ogust but is more common if 3♦ showed a maximum.
3. Shortage ask - similar to #2 but against a shortage query. Notice that this cannot be done below 3NT so it requires a hand willing to play at least 4♠; thus it probably also combines better wih 3♦ max.
4. GF and natural - probably not very good theoretically but keeping your unusual bids natural is not such a bad idea.
5. Slammy with a specific minor - this fills in a gap in some response structures that use an immediate 3♣ or 3♦ for something else.
#10
Posted 2017-February-01, 22:19
#11
Posted 2017-February-02, 03:14
Vampyr, on 2017-February-01, 22:19, said:
There are 2 common schemes of the 2x2 type. One is:-
3♣ = max, ♥
3♦ = max, ♠
3♥ = min, ♥
3♠ = min, ♠
...and the other is:-
3♣ = min, ♥
3♦ = min, ♠
3♥ = max, ♠
3♠ = max, ♥
The other type of scheme uses 3♣ to show multiple hand types, often a specific range with an unknown suit, with 3♦ sorting it out, thus making the response structure a little more condensed.
#12
Posted 2017-February-08, 16:15
2♦ - 2NT - 3♥/♠ is not allowed.
So 3♣ shows hearts, any strength.
One advantage of this is that responder will declare game in opener's suit, whether weak or strong.
This is quite important.
After 2♦ - 2NT - 3♦
responder bids 3♠ to invite, which opener obviously passes with a minimum, accepts with a maximum.
On hands where responder is interested in game in one major but not the other, p/c response of 2♥/♠ works fine.
So Helene's is always available as natural, forcing if you wish, though could be a GF spade raise, requiring opener to cue a shortage.
#13
Posted 2017-February-09, 17:54
'Unders and Overs' is popular: with a minimum, bid 1-under your suit; with a maximum, bid 1-over. This means partner can play the hand.
3♣ shows the balanced 20-22 hand if that is one of your options (for us, it isn't and we use it to show 5♥).