[Infidel]

How does everyone play 2c (x)? I thought I knew, P had other ideas...responder (GIB) bid 2d, I had a pathetic hand with Jxxx in clubs, decided to introduce a variable by bidding 4c (indefensible, but it had been a long session) Of course, I was assuming P had a decent club suit for her double. Opener promptly doubled, and the gib took him out...into 6H!going down 4...P had a 4450 with 12 hcp, cashed 3 top tricks and let the gib find a way to give up a couple more. Opener, with 8 clubs to the AKQT, was not amused...P seemed surprised that I expected her to have clubs...opinions?

[masse24]

Assuming a standard, strong 2♣.
I think 4♣ was the sanest "human" bid at the table. In other words, I too would expect partner to have ♣s.

[kenberg]

The hand that she had could, against a precision 2C, be right for a double. Against a strong 2C? If someone suggested that we play the X to show such a hand I would try to talk him/her out of it, and, if undiscussed, it seems seriously unwise.

No doubt there are cases where the double of an artificial bid, by agreement, has some useful meaning other than showing that suit. The double of a Flannery 2D is often used to show roughly an opening NT hand. There are various meanings for the double of a multi 2D. But even here I would be wary of trotting them out without discussion. It seems to me that the default is that the double of an artificial bid shows cards in the suit bid and invites competition in that suit. With a reasonably sophisticated pard I might feel I can double the Flann 2D with the balanced NT even if we never discussed it, but I would be nervous. If I double a strong artificial 2C, I have clubs. Or I am drunk.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2017-February-08, 11:56, said:

The hand that she had could, against a precision 2C, be right for a double. Against a strong 2C? If someone suggested that we play the X to show such a hand I would try to talk him/her out of it, and, if undiscussed, it seems seriously unwise.

No doubt there are cases where the double of an artificial bid, by agreement, has some useful meaning other than showing that suit. The double of a Flannery 2D is often used to show roughly an opening NT hand. There are various meanings for the double of a multi 2D. But even here I would be wary of trotting them out without discussion. It seems to me that the default is that the double of an artificial bid shows cards in the suit bid and invites competition in that suit. With a reasonably sophisticated pard I might feel I can double the Flann 2D with the balanced NT even if we never discussed it, but I would be nervous. If I double a strong artificial 2C, I have clubs. Or I am drunk.

Can it not be both? Drunk and clubs?

[mycroft]

All I can say is that my "hand I sent to the bulletin" was (2♦ (11-15, 4441 any))-3♦-AP. She thought it was Michaels...

Luckily 3♦-8 scored the same as 5♦= (and beat 5♦+1, but lost to 4♦+2). "Just another average, partner. Nice play."

*I* play with some partners the same defence I do to strong 1♣ openers, so partner would have majors here. With other partners (and opposite a random) I'd expect clubs. But there will be people who think a cuebid is always Michaels, and a double is always takeout. Good luck!

[Zelandakh]

Infidel, on 2017-February-08, 10:53, said:

How does everyone play 2c (x)? I thought I knew, P had other ideas...

There are many possibilities. One of the most popular is Mathe, where double shows the majors. One that has become somewhat less used over time is Truscott, where X shows ♥+♣ and this is also the meaning in Lovera's method from his recent thread. Another option is CRASH, where double is usually 2 suits of the same colour, though the modified form which switches X and 2♦ with 2♥ and 2♠ has gained ground in recent times - there X shows hearts. Finally, there is the option of playing the double to show clubs. This last is the one I would expect if playing with a random B/I level player; with an expert I think the majors would be more likely, so perhaps your partner was paying you a sideways compliment by expecting you to think she had something other than clubs!

[kenberg]

In some cases, few I think, it is reasonable to expect partner to know how you are plating an undiscussed call. This comes up fairly often, especially with doubles, on BBO. Lho opems 1C, partner bids 1D, rho bids 1H, I double. This shows a spade suit plus a tolerance for diamonds? Yes, if we have discussed it. If not?

I play a fair amount of pick up on BBO and one of the most frequent issues is that a partner will make a double where he thinks the meaning is crystal clear and I have no idea what he has in mind. In some partnerships that fourth hand double is diamond support that includes a high honor so that, if dealer becomes declarer, the diamond bidder can lead small from AQxxx.

I think, expert or not, pick up games go better if players do not assume that their partner will surely understand the meaning of an undiscussed conventional bid. Obviously there is some sort of line, everyone knows Stayman, but even there it gets tricky. I open 1NT, lho calls 2C, partner doubles. This means? Of course that might depend on what the 2C means. Or not.

[Kaitlyn S]

kenberg, on 2017-February-09, 06:43, said:

Obviously there is some sort of line, everyone knows Stayman

I have learned through painful experience that even that is too great an assumption. In week one of a class advertised as advanced, I had a hand which assumed the responder would use Stayman with 4=2=5=2; needless to say, I had to specify the final contract because otherwise several tables would have played 3NT. Of course, I would assume that a random partner on BBO knew Stayman.

[SteveMoe]

What Zel said.