[msjennifer]

Playing Gazilli and V VS NV,your partner deals and opens 1S you bid 1NT holding J-QJ9864-KQ76-52.Opener bids 2C (Gazilli) How should the bidding proceed ? Opener held AQ643-3-AJ5-9862. 2D is relay bid and opener bids 2S showing 4 carder Clubs .What now ?

[barmar]

IWBI you used a hand diagram instead of describing the hands and auctions in text.

[nofr]

I think the choice is between 3NT and 4 ♥
I prefer 4♥

[nofr]

Bad answer : i thougt the opener was strong / it is weak : my bid is pass.

[fromageGB]

If you are playing that Gazzilli does not necessarily show 17+ but may simply show clubs, then I think it an error on this hand to bid 2♦. I would bid 2♥. Having bid as you did, I would pass.

[nullve]

msjennifer, on 2018-August-09, 19:33, said:

Playing Gazilli and V VS NV,your partner deals and opens 1S you bid 1NT holding J-QJ9864-KQ76-52.Opener bids 2C (Gazilli) How should the bidding proceed ? Opener held AQ643-3-AJ5-9862. 2D is relay bid and opener bids 2S showing 4 carder Clubs .What now ?

What are the continuations after 1♠-1N; 2♣-2♦; 2♠ in "standard" Gazzilli? I wasn't sure, so I had a look at Ambra, the Bocchi-Duboin system, Fantunes and Nightmare, which all use this sequence similarly. Here's what I found:

1♠-1N; 2♣-2♦; 2♠-?:

Ambra (2004 version on bridgeguys):

[nothing]

Bocchi-Duboin system (as described in th book Il sistema Bocchi-Duboin):

[nothing]

Fantunes (notes by Dan Neill):

[nothing]

Nightmare (translated by Dan Neill):

2N = "bal, no 3♠"
3♣/♦/♥ = "natural"
3♠ = "5♥-4♣"
3N = "5♥-4♦".

Maybe continuations were considered too obvious to be worth mentioning in these Ambra, B-D and Fantunes references? Even in Nightmare we see that Responder's ranges are left out, which might give Responder a problem on the OP hand,

J
QJ9864
KQ76
52,

if he doesn't know if 3♥ is weak or invitational. (I'd bid 3♥ regardless, but...) But maybe Responder would have bid differently with 2-S6+H and invitiational values, e.g. by

* responding 2♥, "2/1 except rebid" style, instead of 1N
* responding 3♥, IJS, instead of 1N
* rebidding 3♥, if assigned this hand type, instead of 2♦,

so that 3♥ now denies invitational values?

---

I play a version of Gazzilli over 1♠-1N, too, but I wouldn't have had this problem. One reason is that I kind of switch the 2♦ and 2♥ responses to 1♠ (like e.g. Bas-Drijver do, IIRC), which allows a hearts-showing two-over-one response also on weakish hands with 6+ hearts. So in my system the auction would actually go

1♠-2♦
2♥-P.

Another reason is that like most Norwegians who claim they play "2/1", I don't play the 1N response as even semi-forcing, and I would certainly pass a 1N response not only with

AQ643
3
AJ5
9862,

but any hand with 10-12 hcp (I use rule of 19 openings) and 5S3-H4C, both because I don't think it will hurt me in the long run even on this hand type, and because of benefits on other hand types. For example, if were to play an otherwise standard Gazzilli (I'm not), then 2♠ over 1♠-1N; 2♣-2♦ could promise either "13-15" or a fifth club, with continuations something like

P = 8-10, 2 S
2N = INV+ relay
...3♣ = NF, 5(+) C
...3♦+ = GF, NAT
3♣/♦/♥ = to play
(...).

[paulg]

I would bid 2♦ over 2♣; now I would bid 3♥. This is non-forcing, limited by the 1NT bid on the first round: in my system it would also be limited by the lack of an initial 3♥ response, which is invitational with six hearts, so this would show 8-10 HCP and (almost certainly) six hearts. It is a rare call.

In the version of Gazzilli I play, opener would bid 2♥ rather than 2♠ to show the weak hand with spades and clubs. This would give me the additional option of passing with this hand, but I think it is strong enough for 3♥.

[rmnka447]

Every convention has certain problem hands that make it difficult to get to reasonable contracts. This thread is about one of those hands. The best you can do is try to get to as decent as possible a less than optimal contract.

I'm not a Gazilli practitioner, but did at least look up and read about it. Since the literature seems to indicate that with 8+ you must relay, I think you do so with this hand. If opener would show the big balanced hand, you'd certainly want to be in 4 ♥. So that means, at the point of your second rebid the auction has proceeded 1 ♠ - 1 NT - 2 ♣(Gazilli) - 2 ♦ - 2 ♠ - ?

So after 2 ♠, I think the possibilities really come down to PASS and 3 ♥. One useful consideration is "What would be the contract if the opponents aren't playing Gazilli?" Most non-Gazilli Forcing NT practitioners are likely to be in 2 ♥ as your hand is not good enough to jump to 3 ♥ after opener's natural 2 ♣ rebid. So if 3 ♥ is a sign off, you'd be in the same strain as most others just one level higher. OTOH, partner has shown 9+ black cards indicating at least somewhat of a misfit, passing 2 ♠ keeps you a level lower and is unlikely to get doubled and ♠ J is potentially a useful card.

Pay your money, take your choice. Just understand that you've made the best choice given what you know and accept the result as more a system issue for what you've chosen to play than anything else.

For what it's worth being a non-practitioner, I'd probably opt for 3 ♥ at IMPS, but pass 2 ♠ at MPs.

[nullve]

rmnka447, on 2018-August-11, 20:23, said:

So after 2 ♠, I think the possibilities really come down to PASS and 3 ♥. One useful consideration is "What would be the contract if the opponents aren't playing Gazilli?" Most non-Gazilli Forcing NT practitioners are likely to be in 2 ♥ as your hand is not good enough to jump to 3 ♥ after opener's natural 2 ♣ rebid. So if 3 ♥ is a sign off, you'd be in the same strain as most others just one level higher. OTOH, partner has shown 9+ black cards indicating at least somewhat of a misfit, passing 2 ♠ keeps you a level lower and is unlikely to get doubled and ♠ J is potentially a useful card.

rmnka447, on 2018-August-11, 20:23, said:

For what it's worth being a non-practitioner, I'd probably opt for 3 ♥ at IMPS, but pass 2 ♠ at MPs.

How can you pass 2♠ at MPs if you think the field is in 2♥?