[FelicityR]

This interesting hand turned up at rubber bridge last night. Love all. It provoked a lot of heated discussion afterwards so much so that it was a good 15 minutes before we played the next hand. Down four doubled - we managed to get the defence perfect - wasn't a good start for the opponents. I must admit I was going to pass as South myself, but I decided to open 1♥ as I thought we could pinch a small part score. The only player who seemed to have both bids at the table was North, but were East/West unlucky or reckless here?

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[Cyberyeti]

I have a lot of sympathy for all the actions (although at rubber, 4♥ is pretty aggressive), just sometimes all the finesses and ruffs work one way. If you start with ♥A then 5♣ is only 1 down for them.

[Tramticket]

I don't like the 4♠ bid, opposite a passed-hand take-out double - why would East assume that 4♥ is making?

Although not easy, the defence could against 4♥ - three rounds of spades ending in east, then the fourth spade for an uppercut.

[apollo1201]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-January-24, 08:58, said:

I have a lot of sympathy for all the actions (although at rubber, 4♥ is pretty aggressive), just sometimes all the finesses and ruffs work one way. If you start with ♥A then 5♣ is only 1 down for them.

HA
C to A
C ruff
D to J
DA
C ruff
D ruff
Very nice defence Felicity

Not sure I’d open this one as with H and not too much in the hand, it is usually opening opponents’ column. Or pickup 50.

X is also very dubious although I can understand trying to enter the auction. It is risking playing in a 4-3 S fit at an uncomfortable level. Although W was probably not thinking it would be the 4th.

At rubber, N 4H is ok unless fancier stuff available, but supposing 1H in 4th is a full value opener.

East’s bid puzzles me. He knows points are evenly distributed and hopes his partner’s honors are well placed, and he has a fair shape too. But total tricks are probably 18 so if they make losing 300 is not so great, a likely -1 each is exchanging a plus to a minus by bidding 4S, and if 4S makes, it is not the end of the world to score a free 100 or 300 before opening the columns.

In all cases, losing 800 on the 1st deal is a bit unfortunate.

After those 15min discussions, what were the conclusions on who is guilty?

[nige1]

FelicityR 'This interesting hand turned up at rubber bridge last night. Love all. It provoked a lot of heated discussion afterwards so much so that it was a good 15 minutes before we played the next hand. Down four doubled - we managed to get the defence perfect - wasn't a good start for the opponents. I must admit I was going to pass as South myself, but I decided to open 1♥ as I thought we could pinch a small part score. The only player who seemed to have both bids at the table was North, but were East/West unlucky or reckless here?'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

IMO "Rub of the green". Nobody's actions were egregious. FelicityR's shaded 1♥ opening enabled NS to reach a lucky game. Tramticket points out that 4 rounds of ♠ defeat 4♥ but, in practice, it would usually make. 4♠ was also a bit pushy but unlucky to go 4 down.

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[Cyberyeti]

 Tramticket, on 2020-January-24, 09:24, said:

I don't like the 4♠ bid, opposite a passed-hand take-out double - why would East assume that 4♥ is making?

Although not easy, the defence could against 4♥ - three rounds of spades ending in east, then the fourth spade for an uppercut.

It's not unreasonable to imagine AQxx, xx, xxx(x), Axx(x) where with spades 3-2 and clubs 3-1 or spades 4-1 and clubs 3-2 or vice versa that 4♥ is making and 4♠ is only -1 or making if they try to cash a second heart or lead a trump or a stiff club rather than cashing the diamonds.

[HFM1818]

in a total points scoring environment, I do not think much of the EW actions, especially E's...partner is a PH, how good of a hand can he have? E's values are not 'fast'...while he cannot tell if 4♥ is going down, his hand offers nearly as much defense as offense....his partner cannot have sufficient cover cards, his ♦ holding is awful, etc...looks to me like bidding 4♠just gave NS two ways to collect.

[dsLawsd]

This auction depends on the skill of the opponents, the state of the score, dinner, drink, and at rubber bridge the amount of coin of the realm.

South has the safety of a good suit, so do what you want.

The Bridge World used to have the feature You Be the Judge where entrants chose the worst action and assigned fault in per cent.
Here, I think the single worst bid was the Takeout Double at rubber, but every other bid was also a fault. North should show a limit raise and let partner captain the auction. East should pass 4 hearts or if rich double (sort of responsive?).

The final double has merit if you are rich or have other info about the opposition. But wonderful defense!!

[FelicityR]

 apollo1201, on 2020-January-24, 13:17, said:

After those 15min discussions, what were the conclusions on who is guilty?

East/West (husband and wife, both good club players) who both gave their consent for this hand to be posted had a fractious exchange in which both my partner and myself kept quiet, even when we were asked for opinions, and my regular partner left the table at one point saying "I've come to play bridge, not to listen to a bloody argument!". At least the couple had the decency to apologise to us both at the end of the evening.

My view. I agree with dsLawsd that probably the most dubious bid is the takeout double by West, though it isn't so awful except if partner has a passed hand that might have enough for 4♠ to be a viable option - which is exactly what happened.

Thankfully the evening continued peacefully after that initial disaster.

[pescetom]

 FelicityR, on 2020-January-26, 01:17, said:

East/West (husband and wife, both good club players) who both gave their consent for this hand to be posted had a fractious exchange in which both my partner and myself kept quiet, even when we were asked for opinions

I subscribe to the old school that when opponents argue one should agree with whoever is most wrong
But in this case it's pretty much a tie so I guess that one would have to console them both that they had no fault.

[nudnikbp]

The most questionable bid was one heart in fourth seat, vulnerable at rubber bridge, but South hit the jackpot and got away with it.

[msjennifer]

Sir,I never tried playing rubber bridge nor do I like to comment on the various crazy bids that occur there.However since this is posted in the column I felt like doing so.I begin with begging pardon of all rubber bridge fans.1)The 1H bid is not to every ones taste in the 4th seat but is a reasonable bid in the 3RD seat for the reasons practically most ,if not all,know. 2)The TOD by the passed W hand is debatable ,yet not unpardonable.3)The E hand is worth a raise to only 2S ( or better a bid of 2H) had N passed keeping in mind the fact that W is a passed hand. The deal is somewhat what can be labelled 'Fortunate to be lucky" for NS.Thanks.

[Zelandakh]

 FelicityR, on 2020-January-26, 01:17, said:

My view. I agree with dsLawsd that probably the most dubious bid is the takeout double by West

I suspect that the takeout double is the only one of the 5 non-passes that I might find at the table. Additionally I would have opened in third seat so I would place the blame firmly on East's shoulders, with some being passed back to N-S for their creative efforts in applying enough pressure to force the decision.

[cherdano]

 Zelandakh, on 2020-January-29, 06:12, said:

I suspect that the takeout double is the only one of the 5 non-passes that I might find at the table. Additionally I would have opened in third seat so I would place the blame firmly on East's shoulders, with some being passed back to N-S for their creative efforts in applying enough pressure to force the decision.

I really think this takeout double with 3244, 10 working points, and opposite a partner who couldn't open in 3rd seat, is awful.

I also think the final double by North, having bid 4♥ (which I am not a fan of), is automatic.

[Cyberyeti]

 cherdano, on 2020-January-29, 18:52, said:

I really think this takeout double with 3244, 10 working points, and opposite a partner who couldn't open in 3rd seat, is awful.

I also think the final double by North, having bid 4♥ (which I am not a fan of), is automatic.

What do you want to hold for a passed hand double ? yes I'd like a 4th spade, but a fraction more strength or shape I'd have opened, so I am as maximum as I can be and tolerable for shape.

[mikestar13]

I think it likely that North had some familiarity with these opponents. 4♥ is a bit of an overbid and the subsequent X was iffy, but against known overbidders this sequence is a worthwhile gamble. Given the EW auction, I would be hoping for a nice number. The actual -4 was an unusually good result, but -3 wouldn't be at all surprising and is worth more than the NS game. -2 is a great result if 4♥ doesn't make.

[AL78]

 FelicityR, on 2020-January-26, 01:17, said:

East/West (husband and wife, both good club players) who both gave their consent for this hand to be posted had a fractious exchange in which both my partner and myself kept quiet, even when we were asked for opinions, and my regular partner left the table at one point saying "I've come to play bridge, not to listen to a bloody argument!". At least the couple had the decency to apologise to us both at the end of the evening.

My view. I agree with dsLawsd that probably the most dubious bid is the takeout double by West, though it isn't so awful except if partner has a passed hand that might have enough for 4♠ to be a viable option - which is exactly what happened.

Thankfully the evening continued peacefully after that initial disaster.

Ah yes, I love the married couple post mortem. Familiarity breeds contempt.

I think EW should resign from the I-will-not-defend club and learn to accept they will not play every hand, or even the majority of them.

[AL78]

 Cyberyeti, on 2020-January-30, 05:14, said:

What do you want to hold for a passed hand double ? yes I'd like a 4th spade, but a fraction more strength or shape I'd have opened, so I am as maximum as I can be and tolerable for shape.

I'd want a fourth spade and 4144 shape, or some 5431 with four spades and a maximum pass. The actual hand looks too flat and weak. It is ok having a balanced hand with opening values (impossible here I know), or a max pass with shape, but lacking both strength and shape I think it best just to pass. Even with a double fit in the black suits and spades 3-3, they couldn't even make enough tricks for a part score. That to me says they were going too far.