[Kungsgeten]

Over our 1M opening (11-16 5+ suit) we currently have no way to introduce a minor suit when holding game forcing values. We play:

1M--
1S = Natural.
1NT = Not forcing
2C = GF relay
2D = Shows heart over 1S opening.
2M-1 = INV with support, or mixed raise.
2M = Normal raise.
2S = INV with spades over 1H opening.
2NT = GF with 4 card support, doesn't want to relay.
3m = Natural INV.
3M = Preemptive.
3NT = "Pudding raise".
Higher = Void splinters.

We could start with 2C and then break the relay, but that depends on partner's rebid.

We've noticed some problems on hands where responder is distributional (like 6+ minor or 5-5 minors), since we don't know how well the hands fit regarding honour placement, even when opener's shape is clear. In these situations I believe natural bidding could be better.

Do you think it could make sense to play 1M-3m as some kind of strong jump shift? I've been thinking of 1M-3C as strong with 6+ in either minor, but I'm not sure.

[PrecisionL]

In 2 partnerships we play 1M - 2♣ as an artificial Game Force asking about opener's distribution. 1M - 3♣/3♦ are fit jumps and invitational or better.

I don't remember ever missing the use of a strong jump shift in a minor in two strong club partnerships.

[rbforster]

If you want to include those, it looks like you could use 1H-2S or 1S-2D. Do you really need 1H-1S forcing natural as well as a 1H-2S invitational jump? You could consider using 1H-1S-rebid-3S as your invite along the lines of normal 2/1. It’s not as low, sure, but maybe it’s ok. If 1S-2D shows hearts less than a GF (assuming your could relay with a heart GF), possibly weak with long hearts, it’s not getting passed in 2D, right? So maybe there’s space in your openers rebid structure to allow 3m to be a GF minors hand as well as weak-invitational with hearts if openers typical responses are 2H/2S/3H (maybe make 2N a H superaccept instead of 3H jump raise to stay lower).

Another option might be give up your (Jacoby?) 1M-2N response. What types of responding major fit hands do you typically not want to relay ask with? You do have void splinters and maybe there’s space in your 1M-(2M-1) raise to include a few odd GF raises hands like maybe singleton splinters, ie 1S-2H(raise)-2S-4m. If you free up 2N, you can use that to show both single suited GF minors hands along the lines of strong Solloway jumps if you use relays, ie 1S-2N-3C(relay):

3D strong diamonds hand
3H strong hearts hand(?, that wanted to show instead of relay)
3S clubs with 4+ major support, no shortness
3N solid clubs
4C not solid clubs
4DH splinter with good clubs and major support
4S as 3S but fast arrival so not as slam interested

Over 3D or 3H, opener relays again and you use all the same answers as above to describe which type of strong D or H hand they have (except possibly 3S-vs-4S might not be available). You can do a similar thing for jumps over 1H but then the space works best if you use 1H-2S as the strong jump so there’s space to unwind it all below 4H according to the above scheme.

[straube]

Kungsgeten, on 2020-February-06, 06:35, said:

Do you think it could make sense to play 1M-3m as some kind of strong jump shift? I've been thinking of 1M-3C as strong with 6+ in either minor, but I'm not sure.

No. Don't do it.

[Kungsgeten]

Thanks for your comments. I find it odd that you haven't had problems with these hands. We've found that it can be hard to know what to do once you've found out about shape. You could scan for honours, but that takes you past 3NT which might be our best contract. Full shape relays also tells a lot in case opener ends up being declarer in a normal game contract.

rbforster: Thank you for your suggestions. We usually do not relay with 5+ cards in the other major, but can choose to do so. 1H-1S therefore covers GF hands with spades, and 1S-2D could be GF with hearts (also made with constructive 6+ hearts, and INV 5 hearts). We play 1H-1S as INV to make responder's rebids a bit easier. 1H-1S; 2X-2S = Weak and 1H-1S; 2X-3S = GF (doesn't need to use 4SF). It would be possible though to use 1H-2S as something else, and use 4SF with game forcing spade one-suiters. Having additional meanings to 1S-2D could perhaps we possible, but we've utilized responders rebids to cater for GF hands with hearts.

We've been thinking about giving up Jacoby 2NT. The hands we're using it on now are hands which doesn't want to bid 1M-4M in case there's slam, but doesn't want to ask about full shape because there's probably no slam unless opener has extras. In other words, the Jacoby 2NT is some-what limited. Opener will show if he has a slam suitable hand (usually meaning extras) and in that case will also tell about shortness. In case we give it up we will probably use 1M-2M-1 as INV+ and use 1M-3M as mixed raise.

One thing that could work is to re-arrange opener's rebids a bit after the initial relay. Then responder could make a relay break, perhaps like this:

1M-2C;
2D = 4+oM, or 5332, or 5440
2H = 4+C
2S = 6+M
2NT+ = 4+D

Now responder can always relay break with 6+D, by bidding 3D. Over opener's 2D and 2S we could also relay break to 3C, perhaps showing 5-5 minors. In that case its only the strong club hands which don't have an option if using the relay.

[straube]

Kungsgeten, on 2020-February-07, 06:50, said:

1M-2C;
2D = 4+oM, or 5332, or 5440
2H = 4+C
2S = 6+M
2NT+ = 4+D

We use Adam's...
2D-4+C or 5332 or 6322/7222
2H-4+D
2S-6M with short
etc-4+OM

If you want to relay break for minors you could rearrange...
2D-4+OM or 5332 or 6322/7222
2H-4+D
2S-6M with short
etc-4+D

We don't differentiate 5440s but certainly could. Space is tight after a 2C start.

[awm]

If the hand is really slammish relay is usually best. There are some hands where you have a stopper issue; for example:

Kx
Qx
xxx
AKJxxx

If partner has 5422 any of 3nt, 4s, 5c could be right (6c needs extras but might be possible). This is probably easier in natural bidding! But strong jump shifts don’t really help you here... you need to hear openers second suit and then break relay. It seems like appropriate relay breaks help you more here.