[Winstonm]

That's a very good point Roland and I thank you - this is why I frequent these posts is to get such valuable input that otherwise would be impossible for me to obtain.

I think I was getting this confused with this auction? 1H-1S-2C-2H/2N-3S, pinpointing the singleton?

What you say is certainly a better treatment with the hand in question.

WinstonM

[reisig]

A 3♥ rebid is out of the question. I'd rather bid 3♠ and when (later) I had to put dummy down -- you take the small ♣ and put in the ♠ suit ..and discover your "error" as you put the trumps down...showing shock ..of course

[Walddk]

Winstonm, on Jun 2 2005, 11:54 AM, said:

That's a very good point Roland and I thank you - this is why I frequent these posts is to get such valuable input that otherwise would be impossible for me to obtain.

I think I was getting this confused with this auction? 1H-1S-2C-2H/2N-3S, pinpointing the singleton?

What you say is certainly a better treatment with the hand in question.

WinstonM

The interesting thing is that with xxx diamonds in the South hand, the 5-level is no longer safe. What else but 4♠ can opener bid with

A
AK1087
8752
AKQ

You may argue that he should have rebid 3♦ instead of 3♣, but I much prefer 3♣ with that hand.

Roland

[luke warm]

Jlall, on Jun 2 2005, 10:53 AM, said:

If north has AKJ AKTxxx x KQx he can drive to the 5 level after a 3S bid surely. Again his hand has improved alot, he would have opened 2C had you told him his pard had spades. As such, he can now drive to the 5 level.

true

Roland said:

Jimmy, South can ask about all that by starting with 4NT. I am not ashamed of what I have shown so far - not after 4♦ either.

also true... ok, ok, i was wrrr... i was wwrrrrrr... damn that hurts

[Al_U_Card]

Like seeing all four hands when dummy, sometimes too much info is a bad thing (for partnership harmony). Would everyone be happy with the club J/S if the responder held 5 baby spades and 5 hcp? (same auction to 3S when he also has a stiff heart, therefore no H preference). Playing Flannery, or the forcing NT inversion, bidding 1S (NT) to show 5S, a 3S rebid by opener is quite descriptive of his values and caters to pard's worst possible holding. Responder can now q-bid on the 4 level and/or go keycarding to show the value of his hand. Call me a pessimist (or realist, as I am the only one who lays down worse dummies than my pards....lol) but overbidding is the only sin that requires punishment in this game.

[hrothgar]

For whats its worth, I like this auction up until the end.

Unlike one of my normal partner Free, I think that 3♣ is your best rebid. Your heart suit isn't good enough for a 3♥ rebid.

After the 4♦ and 5♣ cue bids, I prefer 5♥ to 5NT.

[mcphee]

There were some great replies to this post. The players got into trouble in my opinion because the "expert" placed pressure and the "adv" player with the 4D call.

We all appreciate this is a cue bid for S, except the guy who say the 4D bid as D. This player just ddi not think the situation through and felt that now was the time to show his C support.

I think 5NT catered to something bad happening;

All those who bid 3H, well what can I say. Have you been standing to close to the gas pump when you fill you car?

[Fluffy]

All bids are ok, except the last pass, all the rest have some logic.

5NT is maybe not aclear bid, but north is into real trouble, he needs the 2 aces for 7, and it seems 5♥ might be passed more times than 5NT.

Other bids are debatable, but they are a matter of judgement more than anythign else.

[Winstonm]

I agree with Roland on this one. JS's are such room-consuming bids that I'd prefer taking the low-road approach with 2C first. If partner can't make a move over 2C, I probably haven't lost much if anything. But if partner bids 2S, I can then bid 4D to "catch my hand up" to it's real value.

I realize this hand is real borderline, and I wouldn't quibble if pard did bid 3C, but if I held it, the concern I would have would not be the slight strength of hand that I am missing, but all the room.

WinstonM

[Chamaco]

1) issue 1: this hand shows the flaws of "natural" 5-card major; either the use of Gazzilli by opener OR Kaplan Inversio by responder would find the spades fit at a lower, more comfortable level;

2) after North's cuebid of 4D, agreeing spades, South needs a way to show extras, so bidding 4S would be a distinct underbid.
Perhaps S intended 5C as a cuebid, showing extras.


3) WAS "Last Train to Clarksville" in the agreements ?
I think that 4D is a cue agreeing spades, so, if using LTTC, I would have opted for 4H (LTTC) with South's hand, which shows a hand too strong for a signoff, saying nothing of hearts.
Then North would have simply used RKCB.


4) I do not understand 5NT.

[helene_t]

The auction is fine until 5NT. 5♥ would have been a better bid.

As for asking keycards: that's an option, of course. But if you have the habbit of always asking keycards on your way to slam, I think the Turbo 4NT played by Fantoni/Nunes makes more efficient use of bidding space.

[1Valeria]

Walddk, on Jun 2 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

Justin is spot on. 3♣ is a slight overbid (I wouldn't mind 2♣), but the North hand surely improved after the 1♠ response. 4♦ is also fine; that does not promise extras in the slightest, it merely promises a diamond control for spades.

4♠ could easily be 2524 with no diamond control. I have a feeling that South interpreted 4♦ as natural (0544 I suppose), and then the wheels came off. 4♦ is never natural. That hand would have bid 3NT over 3♠.



A 3♥ rebid by opener would have been wrong for two reasons:

1. The hand has much more potential than a mere invite after 1♠.

2. The suit quality is not good enough for a jump rebid.

Again a question of hand evaluation which no system caters for. In my opinion, the North hand is worth more than the 17 hcp you count. Judgement is what bridge is about! North judged well when he rebid 3♣, although 2♣ would have been fine too.

Having said all that, however, I would not have bid 4♦ facing an inexperienced intermediate/advanced player. I am assuming an expert partnership. With a lesser player/student I would just bid 4♠. No way that bid can be misinterpreted.

Roland

South had a normal 4NT over 4♦, but was perplexed by the 4♦ bid. I like North's bidding a lot and must sadly give the lady in the South seat the full blame - as much as I dislike blaming nice ladies

Roland, the lady was in the North seat and our gentleman in South..... why did you imagine the opposite?

He was introduced to the lady by one of BBO "professional" as one who plays allover USA in regionals and national tournments so she couldn't imagine that 4D was putting such a pressure on him ...... well maybe a little clue .. she knows who his teacher is...

[beatrix45]

To me, the first four bids pass the whiff test. With two bullets, six to the queen in trumps plus a stiff heart, south has to envision a slam opposite a strong jump shift when and if North raises spades - as she should opposite the spade rebid.

1♥ - pass - 1♠ - pass
3♣ - pass - 3♠ - pass
4♠ - pass - ???

North's story is told. Her, slight, overbid has paid off when partner reveals significantly more in spades than four to the ten.

How about Sr. Kantar's fabulous invention, RKC? Four no trump, pass, 3 key cards and no trump queen. Will you get to seven opposite a pick up partner? You might.

[Chamaco]

beatrix45, on Jun 3 2005, 10:50 AM, said:

How about Sr. Kantar's fabulous invention, RKC?  Four no trump, pass, 3 key cards and no trump queen.  Will you get to seven opposite a pick up partner?  You might.

After the 4D cue, which can be only sing/void given the bidding, it' easier getting to the grand,as S has a clearer idea of N's shape:

1) S asks kc (4N), n shows 03(5C), S asks Q(5D), N, shows it + club K(5C)
2) S asks for 3rd round club control by bidding 6 clubs and N bids the grand.

This is easier because the marked diamond shortness guarantees S the knowledge of no diams losers.

=====

EDIT: My mistake, N has to show the club K at the 6 level, not 5 level (6C).