[McBruce]

On Tuesday night, season two of what was known originally as the Vancouver Summer IMP League began with a new name, since it will go to October, the Electronic Vancouver IMP League, chosen mostly for its acronym. We set up a system where to get to the top 8-team division you need to finish high enough in the previous season or pre-qualify, and we had ten play-in matches for five spots. I would have had a more difficult task if the numbers had not worked out so well. What I'd like to see is a BBO way to handle three-way team games, the way we do in a tournament when the numbers are odd. This would help a lot in team leagues. Is it possible?

[Vampyr]

McBruce, on 2020-August-27, 12:39, said:

On Tuesday night, season two of what was known originally as the Vancouver Summer IMP League began with a new name, since it will go to October, the Electronic Vancouver IMP League, chosen mostly for its acronym. We set up a system where to get to the top 8-team division you need to finish high enough in the previous season or pre-qualify, and we had ten play-in matches for five spots. I would have had a more difficult task if the numbers had not worked out so well. What I'd like to see is a BBO way to handle three-way team games, the way we do in a tournament when the numbers are odd. This would help a lot in team leagues. Is it possible?

Perhaps you could use saved boards?

[Gerardo]

It is possible.

Start 3 matches, seat people in the open rooms.

Wait until they finish playing (or adjust the unfinished boards away).

Move all 12 involved people to their corresponding seat in the closed room of the match where teammates played in the open room.

Wait for the Closed Rooms.

Now you have 3 matches in 2 rounds.

Not sure about the 1 round version, but not sure anything is needed, beyond processing of the match results (and the preduplication of boards).

[Vampyr]

Gerardo, on 2020-August-27, 22:18, said:

It is possible.

Start 3 matches, seat people in the open rooms.

Wait until they finish playing (or adjust the unfinished boards away).

Move all 12 involved people to their corresponding seat in the closed room of the match where teammates played in the open room.

Wait for the Closed Rooms.

Now you have 3 matches in 2 rounds.

Not sure about the 1 round version, but not sure anything is needed, beyond processing of the match results (and the preduplication of boards).

How does the preduplication of boards work on BBO?

[paulg]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-28, 06:28, said:

How does the preduplication of boards work on BBO?

BBO either provides random boards or allows you to use your own set of hands. Obviously you need the latter for 3-way matches, so you need to upload pre-dealt hands (in LIN format) into a folder on your BBO account.

I frequently do this using Dealmaster Pro but there are other products and solutions.

[Vampyr]

paulg, on 2020-August-28, 07:21, said:

BBO either provides random boards or allows you to use your own set of hands. Obviously you need the latter for 3-way matches, so you need to upload pre-dealt hands (in LIN format) into a folder on your BBO account.

I frequently do this using Dealmaster Pro but there are other products and solutions.

Yes, this is what I thought. Although the person who suggested preduplicated boards had me intrigued.

[Gerardo]

For the normal, 2 rounds 3-way matches, you need 3 different set of boards, so might as well use random boards.

For the condensed 1 round long 3-way matches, you need to the same set in all 3 matches.

And yes, Paul is right (as usual), but (pre) duplication is the associated concept for the pasteboard version of 3-way matches.

[Vampyr]

Gerardo, on 2020-August-28, 22:21, said:

For the normal, 2 rounds 3-way matches, you need 3 different set of boards, so might as well use random boards.

Yes but you need to save them first so each pair get the right boards.

[McBruce]

Gerardo, on 2020-August-27, 22:18, said:

It is possible.

Start 3 matches, seat people in the open rooms.

Wait until they finish playing (or adjust the unfinished boards away).

Move all 12 involved people to their corresponding seat in the closed room of the match where teammates played in the open room.

Wait for the Closed Rooms.

Now you have 3 matches in 2 rounds.

Not sure about the 1 round version, but not sure anything is needed, beyond processing of the match results (and the preduplication of boards).

Wow: I had not even thought this would be possible. Let me confirm bit by bit, since we are in the round-robin phase now and there's lots of time to experiment. To make this work, I need to:

--set up three team matches, let's assume the three teams are Art/Andy, Alice/Anne; Bob/Barry, Bryce/Bela; and Chris/Cathy, Cary/Callie.
--I need three sets of boards, one for each table, in lin format (done this before, many years ago, should be easy enough)
--First table, A vs B, I set up as Team 1: N Art, S Andy, E/W undefined, Team 2 N/S undefined, E Bryce, W Bela. Other tables similar.
--When it comes time for the change, the boards stay, so everyone has to move, E/W to a higher table, N/S to a lower table, and we occupy the undefined seats from round one.

My first question is this: will this even work? Will the software allow a team game to start at one table before you have any players even reserved for the second? If so, great solution!

Second question: how many team games can I run at one time, and who do I ask to increase this number?

[Gerardo]

You can have prepared boards for each table, but you don't need them.

It does work, as long as you have 4 players in the OR, the play can start.

Was usually used for GNT finals wit odd # of teams in the districts that run them online (like yours IIRC).

Use +slow+, just in case.
Use +private+, else you'll be flooded with requests to sit.

[Vampyr]

Gerardo, on 2020-August-29, 15:37, said:

You can have prepared boards for each table, but you don't need them.

It does work, as long as you have 4 players in the OR, the play can start.

Was usually used for GNT finals wit odd # of teams in the districts that run them online (like yours IIRC).

Use +slow+, just in case.
Use +private+, else you'll be flooded with requests to sit.

I really don’t understand how you can do this without prepared boards.

For the first round, AvB, board set 1, BvC, board set 2, CvA, board set 3.
In the second round, BvA will need board set 1, CvB will need board set 2, and AvC will need board set 3.

[sfi]

A team match has two tables and when you create one it exists until both tables finish. What I believe Gerardo is suggesting is to start three of these and only seat players in the open room initially.

Everyone now plays their boards. When done, you now have three half-completed matches, where the closed room has not yet started play in any of them. Simply reseat the players appropriately and play the other half of each match. BBO will retain the boards and results from the first half.

[McBruce]

Once all three matches are started, is it then safe to enter the closed room names? Or should I wait until all three matches are finished the first half?

[McBruce]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-29, 16:41, said:

I really don’t understand how you can do this without prepared boards.

For the first round, AvB, board set 1, BvC, board set 2, CvA, board set 3.
In the second round, BvA will need board set 1, CvB will need board set 2, and AvC will need board set 3.

If I understand this correctly, the key is that everyone moves to a new table and the boards stay, as opposed to the way we do it offline.

So using teams of Art/Andy, Alice/Anne; Bob/Barry, Bryce/Bela; and Chris/Cathy, Cary/Callie:

(players in parentheses indicate assignments made later)

Match One AAAA vs BBBB -- Team One: N Art, S Andy, E (Alice), W (Anne); Team Two: N (Bob), S (Barry), E Bryce, W Bela
Match Two BBBB vs CCCC -- Team One: N Bob, S Barry, E (Bryce), W (Bela); Team Two: N (Chris), S (Cathy), E Cary, W Callie
Match Three CCCC vs AAAA -- Team One: N Chris, S Cathy, E (Cary), W (Callie); Team Two: N (Art), S (Andy), E Alice, W Anne

The other difference from the way it is done offline in the ACBL at least is that board numbers will be the same at all three tables.

[Gerardo]

2 posts above:

You need everyone to finish their first half, as you are removing them from their current seat (assuming same lineup for both matches).
1 post above:

Correct, all of it.