[pescetom]

smerriman, on 2023-February-21, 22:11, said:

Can the leap-to-5M bid be outright deleted from Argine's database? It bids it so regularly, and (amongst other reasons) makes it impossible to have any form of meaningful slam auction, especially when it seems to have no idea what it's meant to mean.

On the most recent occasion, according to the definition and hand itself, it decided to use it on a keycard-less minimum.

I would already strangle a human partner who bid 2♥ with a hand like this, even without explicit agreement to exclude it.
What is the problem to show this hand later if necessary?
I am balanced (transfer and investigate slam) or spades (ISL raise) or a single suit minor (bid hearts).

[helene_t]

Another one where they scramble to 6nt after I have doubled every one of their bids
https://www.bridgeba...s%20a%20keycard)%20-%20Forcing|mb|P|mb|5C|an|6-7!C;%20HCP%2014-17;%20natural|mb|D|an|1+!H;%20HCP%2018-;%20penalty|mb|5N!|an|6+!S;%20HCP%2011;%20Blackwood,%20asks%20how%20many%20Kings%20-%20Forcing|mb|P|mb|6C!|an|6-7!C;%20HCP%2014-17;%201%20or%204%20King(s)%20and%20not%20counting%20King%20of%20trumps%20-%20Non%20forcing|mb|D|an|1+!H;%20HCP%2018-;%20penalty|mb|6N|an|6+!S;%20HCP%2011;%20to%20play|mb|P|mb|P|mb|D|an|1+!H;%20HCP%2018-;%20penalty|mb|P|mb|P|mb|P|pc|HQ|pc|HK|pc|H6|pc|H9|pc|D2|pc|DK|pc|D3|pc|D4|pc|C3|pc|S2|pc|CJ|pc|C2|pc|CK|pc|C4|pc|C5|pc|D5|pc|C6|pc|C7|pc|CQ|pc|S6|pc|DA|pc|D8|pc|DJ|pc|D6|pc|D7|pc|D9|pc|S4|pc|S3|pc|DT|pc|H2|pc|HT|pc|S7|pc|DQ|pc|H4|pc|C8|pc|S5|pc|H3|pc|H5|pc|HA|pc|S9|pc|S8|pc|SJ|pc|SQ|pc|H7|pc|SA|pc|H8|pc|C9|pc|SK|pc|ST|pc|HJ|pc|CT|pc|CA|

[helene_t]

And here it's my fault for making a misguided double. But why bid 3nt when defending 1ntx was available?
https://tinyurl.com/2hprrj4b
It is also weird to ask p to bid their minor when they have already opened 1di.

[pescetom]

helene_t, on 2023-February-23, 14:23, said:

And here it's my fault for making a misguided double. But why bid 3nt when defending 1ntx was available?
https://tinyurl.com/2hprrj4b
It is also weird to ask p to bid their minor when they have already opened 1di.

The 2NT bid is also explained as 4+ in both minors, so I'm not sure why you bid clubs unless you already smelt a rat
But anything other than 2♣ or 2♦ by N is bizarre, given vulnerability and hand.

[smerriman]

helene_t, on 2023-February-23, 14:19, said:

Another one where they scramble to 6nt after I have doubled every one of their bids

Link

Fixed your link. I had the same hand, and elected to bid 3♠ as South. West tried a 4♥ cuebid, intended as Michaels, but described as strong (despite being a passed hand). East was either asking for the minor, or bidding a natural 4NT for some reason, but it ended up being interpreted as Blackwood.

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Really bizarre how the robots make a bid expecting it to mean one thing, but interpret it as another. Seems to be a fundamental issue with how they're programmed. GIBs approach seems better and better the more I play with Argine!

Sadly, misplayed for only down 4 and a 58% score

[pilowsky]

In this auction, what do 3NT and 4♣ mean?

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[smerriman]

pilowsky, on 2023-February-24, 18:31, said:

In this auction, what do 3NT and 4♣ mean?

Argine forgets it's playing ACOL and plays SEF here instead. Don't how SEF works, but presumably agreeing one of the majors as trumps somehow.

[smerriman]

Argine is horrible.

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I was happy when 4N was described as Blackwood in spades, because I had a strong hand but no way to raise spades without repeated cuebidding.

Until Argine decided to play in no trumps, losing the first 6 diamond tricks off the top.

[pescetom]

smerriman, on 2023-February-24, 18:38, said:

Argine forgets it's playing ACOL and plays SEF here instead. Don't how SEF works, but presumably agreeing one of the majors as trumps somehow.

Wikipedia fr said:

3SA s'il a quatre cartes dans les deux majeures

allors 4♣ sera re-Stayman, je presume

[pilowsky]

Well that's handy - two systems in one robot.
Randomly oscillating between them from bid to bid.

[pescetom]

pilowsky, on 2023-February-25, 15:57, said:

Well that's handy - two systems in one robot.
Randomly oscillating between them from bid to bid.

I remember several SEF contaminations playing 2/1, so no surprise that the same happens playing Acol.

[smerriman]

smerriman, on 2023-February-21, 22:11, said:

Can the leap-to-5M bid be outright deleted from Argine's database? It bids it so regularly, and (amongst other reasons) makes it impossible to have any form of meaningful slam auction, especially when it seems to have no idea what it's meant to mean.

Please..

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[pilowsky]

"Hope of slam"
Excellent.

[thepossum]

smerriman, on 2023-February-21, 22:11, said:

Can the leap-to-5M bid be outright deleted from Argine's database? It bids it so regularly, and (amongst other reasons) makes it impossible to have any form of meaningful slam auction, especially when it seems to have no idea what it's meant to mean.

On the most recent occasion, according to the definition and hand itself, it decided to use it on a keycard-less minimum.

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I had one of those recently. Had no idea what to do but gambled on 6 and made it Total luck, especially with 2 losers in one of the minor suits
THis was my form of the 5 level jump

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There is always someone who manages a 100% with 6NT though

[finesse157]

helene_t, on 2022-November-30, 08:50, said:

I have written a few pieces in the "something new" thread and in robot reports.

Generally, the Acolist robots bid very well.

A few things that would be nice to clarify in the system notes:
- what are the rules for which of two (or three) four-card suits to open?
- to what extend to we play Walsh style (Acolists tend to rebid Walsh style, of course if they open a major with 4M4m32 it is moot).
- FSF is game forcing (I suppose that is what is meant by "making the auction forcing".
- The 1NT rebid is 15-17 (should be obvious, maybe, but isn't to British club players )
- Count signals are high=even

I would whole heartedly disagree with the "bid very well" comment. Playing in the free daily, Argine has a WTF ratio of about 1 in 8 hands. Anything involving a Q bid is going to be a disaster. The definitions are way off for too many sequences. However worst of all is the hand valuation. In response to a 1S opener, both of these were "worth" 3S...
Jxxx-xx-Ax-xxxxx
AQxxx-x-KJxx-xx

[pilowsky]

The winning (smerriman) method - with the same lead - was to double.
Watch Argine convert 3NT+3 into 3NT-2.

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And here we re-discover the "Argine double".

If you want a bigger penalty just keep doubling - it almost never stops below slam.

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Unfortunately, because I foolishly opened 1♥ I only managed 5SX-3.

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[smerriman]

pilowsky, on 2023-February-28, 18:09, said:

If you want a bigger penalty just keep doubling - it almost never stops below slam.

I'm staggered than 5NT wasn't Blackwood, Ace-asking. Well, not according to West, anyway. Might have been 1430 king asking, excluding diamonds, for East?

But yes, I enjoyed the Q♥ play.

[smerriman]

smerriman, on 2023-February-26, 18:44, said:

Please..

Pretty please.. it bids it almost once per tournament, with a different unknown meaning every time. This one similar to thepossum's above, but it doesn't show a single thing it hadn't previously other than a spade fit.

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[smerriman]

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Argine has a game force opposite a 2NT overcall. It decides to bid 3♥, natural, showing 5 hearts, and 0-11 points. Not even sure where to start here.

[pilowsky]

On the plus side it seems to emulating actual human Bridge as played at average club level - so that's something.

I just played the same hand - good grief.