[wyzguyy]

Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone has a systemic way of adjusting for weak spot cards? 3 aces and 10 cards 2-6 has got to be worth less than 3 aces and 10 cards 7-10.

[jillybean]

Holding 3 aces I'm always opening at the 1 level or making a gf response to partners 1 level opening, regardless of spots.
I expect any adjustment for spot cards comes later in the auction.

[smerriman]

Tens are only really useful if they're connected with higher honors. I don't see why you'd want to adjust for others; in the vast majority of hands, A432 is going to play identically to A987.

[LBengtsson]

wyzguyy, on 2023-January-24, 21:14, said:

Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone has a systemic way of adjusting for weak spot cards? 3 aces and 10 cards 2-6 has got to be worth less than 3 aces and 10 cards 7-10.

Length over strength. Extreme example: ♠A65432 ♥A65432 ♦A ♣void comes out as 18.2 on the Kaplan & Rubens evaluator, whereas ♠A1098 ♥A109 ♦A109 ♣1098 comes out at 14.55.

I think K&R covers cards up to a 8, but even changing the extreme example above to ♠A109876 ♥A109876 ♦A where the intermediate cards are in long suits to a 19.9 valuation only.

[wuudturner]

Do I adjust? To some extent. I had a hand the other day where I had great spots. all 4 tens, plus some nines in there. As it turned out, three of those tens were useful in developing tricks. Tens in combination with higher honors will contribute to the trick taking potential of your hand.

If a suit is KQJT9, you will take 4 tricks, pretty much no matter what as long as you have the necessary entries. Conversely, if the suit us KQJ32, then you will take 2 tricks for sure, and you MAY have a chance at more tricks. And if the suit is KQJ98, you have much better chances at taking 4 tricks compared to the KQJ32 suit, since now the 10 may drop, or partner might even have it. (Every once in a while partners do serve some purpose, but please don't tell my partner I said so.)

So yes, spot cards are relevant. And where the spot cards are is as important as what they are. For example, compare these hands:

KQT9
A2
AT87
432

Change that to

KQ32
AT
A742
T98

There is a significant difference. The T9 in spades make the honors above them much better. Even the T87 in diamonds are potentially worth something, and I would slightly rather have AT87 than AT32. MIGHT the club spots in the second hand be worth something? You have no idea in advance, but I won't be adding any values to any hand because of spots in a topless suit.

Give me good spot cards in a hand, and I will often be willing to upgrade a 14 count to be a 15-17 1NT.

How much ia a 10 worth? I might suggest a simple rule that two USEFUL tens are roughly worth a jack. A pair of useful nines are worth a 10, etc. If you have two spots in sequence, then the lower spot is the equal of the higher spot.

A great suit like this, KQJT98 is worth its weight in gold. And while we typically are willing to downgrade a jack in an empty suit like Jxxx, the JT98 are equals there, and each as good as the king or queen since the KQ are also in the suit. You might use the logic that in the suit KQJT98, the 8, 9, and T are all equals with the jack, and the Jack carries full weight in this suit.

The point is, spots are useless in a vacuum. They have value only in conjunction with higher honors. Good spots in long suits are useful. But in order to properly evaluate the value of those spots you need to look at the entire hand.

[mikeh]

As others have suggested, 10’sxare valuable and, especially in combination with 10’s or J/Q’s, so are 9’s

AQ9x opposite xxx. Play low to the 9, not the queen. The player in front of the AQ9x will have both the J and the 10 25% of the time, so your 9 forces the King (unless that’s onside as well, and that’s ok!)

You can always play towards the queen next time.

But this isn’t quite what the OP was asking

Personally, I don’t ever downgrade for poor spots. However I often upgrade for good ones.

I don’t use numbers…I just ‘like’ a hand that has well-placed good spot cards, so will be more optimistic in the bidding than perhaps the 4321 point count suggests.

[thepossum]

I wasn't going to ask here but when in a NT contract what is better T9xx or xxxx
There are times occasionally when I adjust

[blackshoe]

Marty Bergen suggested that if the hand has at least 3 more aces and tens than it does queens and jacks, add a point. Conversely with at least three more quacks than aces and tens, subtract a point. He calls this "adjust-3".