Playing Multi 2 way , is this a 3♠ opening?
Multi 7
#1
Posted 2023-January-26, 23:40
Playing Multi 2 way , is this a 3♠ opening?
#2
Posted 2023-January-27, 00:09
#3
Posted 2023-January-27, 00:28
sfi, on 2023-January-27, 00:09, said:
Seat and vulnerability matter. But it’s not a weak two bid so it’s not a multi 2D whatever you mean by 2 way multi.
It’s actually perfect for what I’m currently playing: 2S 10-13 hcp. Usually only 6 spades but the weak hand, including no ads, makes it seem like a good idea.
To me, it lacks the defence suggested by 1S but is too good for 3S unless vulnerable. At both red id be nervous but I think it’s ideal for a red v white 3S…indeed I might choose that instead of a 2S intermediate bid.
#4
Posted 2023-January-27, 00:46
3 way multi as above, or 8 playing tricks in a minor
I know there are variations but that is what is played around these parts in NZ
#5
Posted 2023-January-27, 01:43
mikeh, on 2023-January-27, 00:28, said:
I’ve been playing something similar, but with an 8-11 range. I wouldn’t open 2S playing it, but 10-13 looks ok for this hand.
#6
Posted 2023-January-27, 01:45
jillybean, on 2023-January-27, 00:46, said:
3 way multi as above, or 8 playing tricks in a minor
I know there are variations but that is what is played around these parts in NZ
Thanks. I do my best to avoid any strong options when partner wants to play multi. It’s nice to be able to pass 2D or to jump around without stuffing up partner’s plan.
#7
Posted 2023-January-27, 04:11
jillybean, on 2023-January-27, 00:46, said:
3 way multi as above, or 8 playing tricks in a minor
I know there are variations but that is what is played around these parts in NZ
That 3 way multi is not good. The comment I remember was from Sally Horton's book about her partnership with Sandra Landy where they canned the strong 2 in a minor after a lot of bidding practice where they frequently ended up in the wrong contract without any palpably bad bids. Strong balanced is much more manageable as you can use a 3N response as 4-4 in the majors, game values but no slam ambitions opposite the big balanced.
#9
Posted 2023-January-27, 14:17
sfi, on 2023-January-27, 01:45, said:
Do you only play Multi as
BTW what do Multi players use a 2NT opening for?
#11
Posted 2023-January-27, 14:50
Cyberyeti, on 2023-January-27, 14:49, said:
ok, and your 1x 2NT rebid is 17-18?
#12
Posted 2023-January-27, 15:13
jillybean, on 2023-January-27, 14:17, said:
BTW what do Multi players use a 2NT opening for?
We only play Multi as weak in either major. If I'm playing 2/1, 2NT shows something like 20-21 balanced, with 18-19 opening 1 of a suit and rebidding 2NT. Stronger hands start with 2C. We've found the preemptive value of a multi with no strong options far outweighs the precision we gained from more strong balanced ranges. For example, if you hold
Axxx
KQxx
x
xxxx
And partner opens 2D multi. If you have no strong ranges, you can simply bid 4H (pass or correct) or use similar agreements if you have them. If responder has to worry about a strong balanced range, then you can't do that without worrying about finding the right fit or whether you have a slam. And if partner has one of the weak hands, it will be easier for your LHO to enter the auction since you can't jump straight to the 4-level.
#14
Posted 2023-January-27, 15:28
#15
Posted 2023-January-27, 16:27
jillybean, on 2023-January-27, 15:28, said:
Broad structure
say 1♦-1♠-2N
3♣ is pretty much forced, you might rebid a really long spade suit (8, or 7 with a stiff diamond at most) or show a massive 2 suiter (NT is a cipher for clubs in all these sequences)
over 3♣
3♦ is 6 or more diamonds, may have 3 spades but not more
3♥ is 6♦-4♥ may still have 3 spades (5-4 without 3♠ just reverses)
3♠ is 5♦-3♠(41) or 3064
3N is 6♦-4♣ not 3♠ NF but HUGE, 2♣ is all but forcing
4♣ is 4351/4261
4♦ is 2452
4♥ is 4153/4162
This runs in conjunction with immediate void splinters over 1♠ and 1♦-1♠-4♦ as "nothing other than aces are worth anything in the other 2 suits", and change of suit forcing unless you didn't have a response, so there is no need to do anything extravagant with your 18-19 with 5 diamonds and 4 clubs, just rebid 2♣. We actually use 1♦-1♠-3♣ as a hand like x, xx, AQJxx, KQJxx NF, 2 good suits but not a huge hand.
You can adjust some of the meanings relatively easily, it means 1♦-1♠-3♦ is limited by the failure to bid 2N
#16
Posted 2023-January-27, 17:28
jillybean, on 2023-January-27, 14:17, said:
BTW what do Multi players use a 2NT opening for?
19+-21, but we won’t play multi with a strong option
For example, the auction 2D (p) 4C says transfer into your major
2D (p) 4D says bid your major
These jumps to 4m can be made on weak hands with both majors or strong hands…including hands that intend to bid slam (which would usually entail the 4D bid then keycard or cuebids)
If one has to cater to the rare balanced strong hand, these bids go out of the window, but they are very effective when they arise.
Also, as others have said, playing only weak multi gives responder opportunity to create issues….if white v red, one can even psyche a pass of 2D. Analogous to my all time favourite and now, alas, illegal convention..the multi 2H. We’d often pass 2H with weak hands, not caring about -200 or -250, rather than giving second hand another chance.
We got a LOT of good results from that….when Kokish says he can’t think of a defence to the multi 2H, you know it’s good
So, while there are good defences to 2D, they’re still vulnerable to responder sometimes being able to muddy the waters…which he cannot afford to do opposite a strong option.
As for 1x 1y 2N…..in one partnership, 1C 1R (transfer) 2N is a strong 4 card raise, at least 17+, with artificial responses
1D 1M 2N is strong, 16+, 6 diamonds and fewer than 3M or very strong, gf with 3M. 1D 1M 3D is 16+, less than gf, with 3M
We can do this because we open all balanced hands out of range for notrump with 1C….3352 18 count is a 1C opener. 1D is 5+ diamonds unbalanced or 4 diamonds, almost always some 4441 but rarely 4 very good diamonds and 5 weak clubs, with a stiff major….to avoid 1C 1R (transfer to the stiff major) problem. For us 1C 1R 1N is 17-19 balanced so with say 3145, if we open 1C and partner bids 1D,
we have to rebid 2C..ugh
#17
Posted 2023-January-27, 20:34
What is the illegal (where?) Multi 2♥?
#18
Posted 2023-January-27, 21:36
jillybean, on 2023-January-27, 20:34, said:
What is the illegal (where?) Multi 2♥?
2H as a weak two in either major. It’s devastating. The WBF outlawed it because it was impossible to play against.
Pick up a bad hand as responder, you just pass 2H. I often went down a lot…against their game. I played it for over a year. It came up many times. The local club let us play it, since we were practicing for the team trials.I think our average matchpoint score was over 90%
I expect stronger opps would have done better in the long run , but even against some of the strongest players in the country, we carved them up.
This was a Lauria-Versace invention, I believe…the WBF certainly wasn’t reacting to MY bidding, lol.
#19
Posted 2023-January-27, 21:50
mikeh, on 2023-January-27, 21:36, said:
It's a Brown Sticker convention and subject to restrictions on when pairs can play it. I don't see anything in the WBF system regulations that outlaws it though, unless they are arguing the requirement that "a viable suggested defence to any Brown Sticker convention must be filed" is impossible to meet. It would be allowed in most events in Australia, for example.
#20
Posted 2023-January-27, 22:19
sfi, on 2023-January-27, 15:13, said:
Axxx
KQxx
x
xxxx
And partner opens 2D multi. If you have no strong ranges, you can simply bid 4H (pass or correct) or use similar agreements if you have them. If responder has to worry about a strong balanced range, then you can't do that without worrying about finding the right fit or whether you have a slam. And if partner has one of the weak hands, it will be easier for your LHO to enter the auction since you can't jump straight to the 4-level.
I actually meant I like this, but cyberyeti reply interrupted the flow. It may all be too much to worry about as I will only be playing multi for a few more weeks, but it's good to know.