[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-January-27, 04:11, said:

That 3 way multi is not good. The comment I remember was from Sally Horton's book about her partnership with Sandra Landy where they canned the strong 2 in a minor after a lot of bidding practice where they frequently ended up in the wrong contract without any palpably bad bids. Strong balanced is much more manageable as you can use a 3N response as 4-4 in the majors, game values but no slam ambitions opposite the big balanced.

I thought that was the classical way of playing the Multi, weak 2M, strong 2m or strong balanced.

[LBengtsson]

I do not know the specific requirements for a Multi, or whether your pre-empts can be weaker/stronger in a specific position, or at a specific vulnerability at the table, but imo weak two bids, or variations of such as the Multi, should only have a six card suit, or a five card suit if played that way. A poor seven card suit could be downgraded to a six card suit, but a seven card suit headed by KQ109 is either a one, three or possibly a four level opening, depending on the factors listed above.

The extra card does make a difference. Given the lack of defense, even though there is a extra K in the hand, I am with you, jillybean, in opening this 3♠ most of the time, dependent on table position and vulnerability, and whether my partner has made a bid.

I do not see the logic of opening this 2♠ (intermediate range) in 4th position as a) you have the the top suit b) the points must be equally spread around the table as you only have 10HCPs c) intermediate two bids are made on six card suits, not seven.

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2023-January-27, 22:19, said:

I actually meant I like this, but cyberyeti reply interrupted the flow. It may all be too much to worry about as I will only be playing multi for a few more weeks, but it's good to know.

And I pointed out you can bid 3N on that type of hand if your multi contains 19-20 bal, but you can't if it contains strong 2 in a minor. If partner has the strong bal, he knows whether to pass or bid 4M, obviously he bids 4M with the weak 2 (you can pass if RHO thinks and passes). If he does bid 4M, the opps may not be able to tell which he has, it's dangerous to act with a 14-15 count over it, and equally dangerous to act over 4M.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2023-January-28, 02:38, said:

I thought that was the classical way of playing the Multi, weak 2M, strong 2m or strong balanced.

It was, this is what Landy/Horton discarded, we used to play weak 2/strong bal/strong 4441, but you need to play strong 4441 say 18+ rather than the 16+ that was originally suggested. You can bounce this one with 3N also as the 4441 obviously guarantees a major.

[nullve]

mikeh, on 2023-January-27, 21:36, said:

2H as a weak two in either major. It’s devastating. The WBF outlawed it because it was impossible to play against.

sfi, on 2023-January-27, 21:50, said:

It's a Brown Sticker convention and subject to restrictions on when pairs can play it. I don't see anything in the WBF system regulations that outlaws it though, unless they are arguing the requirement that "a viable suggested defence to any Brown Sticker convention must be filed" is impossible to meet.

WBF Systems Policy said:

2.3 Brown Sticker Conventions and Treatments
The following conventions or treatments are categorised as ‘Brown Sticker’:
a. Any opening bid of two clubs through three spades that:
i. could be made on 9 high card points or less AND
ii. does not promise at least four cards in a known suit.

[...]

EXCEPTION: a two level opening bid in a minor showing a weak two in either major, whether with
or without the option of strong hand types containing 16 high card points or more, or with
equivalent values. Defensive measures are permitted for opponents as in 6 below

So Multi 2♦ is an exception to being a Brown Sticker. There is no exception for a Multi 2♥ opening (called 'Major Flash' by Chris Ryall) as long as the bid can be made with 9 hcp or less.

mikeh, on 2023-January-27, 00:28, said:

what I’m currently playing: 2S 10-13 hcp.

The policy seems to allow 2♥ as Multi with 10-13 hcp instead of Weak Two strength.

[sfi]

nullve, on 2023-January-28, 07:09, said:

The policy seems to allow 2♥ as Multi with 10-13 hcp instead of Weak Two strength.

Correct. You could play it with this range without it being Brown Sticker, but it seems like a terrible idea. You're too likely to miss out on games where knowing which major partner has is an important part of your evaluation.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

depending on vul. I would go with 4S.

With kind regards
Marlowe