[jillybean]

Hi, you are playing stock standard, 15-17nt, matchpoints, club bridge.
I don't want any fancy systems or treatments
I would like you to give reasons why you would or wouldn't open 1nt with this hand.
Thanks.

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[P_Marlowe]

#1 I may have miscounted, but you have 18HCP
#2 Opening 1NT with 5422 is usually done to avoid being forced to decide between making / not making a reverse bid,
the given hand is an easy reverse bid hand, so why not show the shape and the strength

[jillybean]

corrected OP

[mycroft]

The only reason to open 1NT with this hand (assuming, as above, you're playing 16-18) is if 1♠ rebid will almost guarantee a singleton somewhere. In other words, if it's the least lie.

Above what P_Marlowe says, the strength is concentrated in the long suits; with something like K765 A8 KQ AJ843 I'd be more likely to think about 1NT - but probably still not do it.

With the majors reversed, I might think about it more, especially with not enough strength (not just HCP, internal suit quality et al) to reverse after 1♣-1♠).

Of course, if I had the tools after 1NT to show (42)(25), then it's more likely (but again, that probably means that my system is such that 1♠ "strongly implies" an unbalanced hand, otherwise why would I have those tools?)

Of course, the most likely reason for opening 1NT (again, assuming it's in range) is "if I open 1♣, partner might be playing the (spade) contract." Which, you know, if you are a pro trying to win masterpoints for a client who averages pitching a trick every two hands she declares, maybe is a valid reason. If not, it's masterminding, and should lead to partner finding a partner who *does* think she can declare.

[mw64ahw]

Nope
2 weak doubletons
The boss suit
Not balanced
Greater chance of finding a ♣ fit
I have a fancy system

[Stephen Tu]

The reasons for opening 1nt:

- you have honors in your short red suits so you don't mind the lead against NT coming into you so much.

- probably the biggest reason, is that very many auctions are likely to start 1c-1red-1s-1nt, which has a very wide range. Now you are at a bit of quandary, because partner is about 6-10, and at the upper range you want to bid game, while opposite 6-7 2nt is sometimes too high. This one you basically have to try 2nt, so you will be overboard sometimes. Opening 1nt has a narrower range than partner's 1nt rebid and avoids this issue better.

- you get less revealing auctions (1nt-p-3nt) which will sometimes buy less accurate leads/defense.

- sometimes reach a 5-2 2H partial which outscores 1nt/2nt for whatever reason.

The main reasons against is you might end up missing some good club contracts and going down in NT instead, or play 2H opposite a bad 5 cd heart suit when NT would have been easier, or miss a good spade partial when partner passes 1nt holding 4 cd spades and a weak hand.

[bluenikki]

jillybean, on 2025-January-29, 09:42, said:

Hi, you are playing stock standard, 15-17nt, matchpoints, club bridge.
I don't want any fancy systems or treatments
I would like you to give reasons why you would or wouldn't open 1nt with this hand.
Thanks.

---

When you have a 4-card spade suit, you should not open (strong) 1NT if there is _any_ flaw.

Original Roth-Stone barred a 1NT opening when holding 4 spades, without exception. That may be going too far.

[pescetom]

It still looks a bit too strong for 1NT 15-17 to me.

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2025-January-29, 11:42, said:

It still looks a bit too strong for 1NT 15-17 to me.

I'd say on it's own the hand's playing strength is at best a 16

[jdiana]

I would open 1♣ mainly because I have a 1♠ rebid available. I have no problem reversing into spades after 1♣ - 1NT - 2♠. If it goes 1♣ - 1red - 1♠ - 1NT, I would suck it up and bid 2NT. (As an aside, is it clear that that bid shows 18-19 HCP, or is it different from 1x-1y-2NT or 1M-1NT (SF)-2NT, since responder has presumably limited their hand to 10 HCP?)

But I am more stopper-phobic than most. To me, Jx is no better than xx, and Qx not much better than Jx. (I would feel differently about Kx or Qxx.)

The biggest advantage of opening 1NT might be one of the ones Stephen Tu mentioned - it would hide our vulnerability in ♥ & ♦. If it goes, e.g., 1♣ - 1♥ - 1♠ - 1NT - 2NT - 3NT, we've basically instructed our opponents to lead a diamond, which could be very bad.

[HardVector]

This comes down to the basics of the meaning of the 1nt bid. Bidding is a language, and the meaning of 1nt is to tell partner that you have a hand of X strength that can support whatever you are interested in, where do you want to go? You immediately put partner in charge of the destination. If you have a hand that is not an accurate definition of "balanced", you put your partner into the position of potentially making the wrong decision. The hands that I usually put my partner in charge of things, are hands where I have a rebid problem and hands in which the values are not stressed in my long suits. There is a third criteria, but that has nothing to do with bidding. If I am playing with someone who's game I don't trust, I will lean toward openings that will tend to make me declarer.

In your example hand, you have some weak values in the short suits with excellent long suit holdings. You don't have a rebid problem. Open 1c. It is possible that a lead in nt up to the Q or J you have in the doubletons could be beneficial. No bidding system is going to be perfect, you try to make the best decisions you can and hope that normal distributions will get you superior results. It is also possible that playing in a 4-3 spade fit will be the best result. There may be a club slam in play. Instead of making partner guess what kind of holding you may have, describe your hand. Open 1n when you don't really care what suit your partner is going to put you in. 1n is more than just how many points you have.

Now, 2n openings are different. There are going to be MANY more hands that you will not want to open 1x because you don't want to deal with all the complications that come with that.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-January-29, 09:57, said:

corrected OP

Even now you have 17HCP, it is not even borderline reverse strength.

A common 5422 hand would have 15/16 less suit quality, say switch the Jack of hearts
with the King of spades, make it the Jack or ten of clubs instead of the Queen and you
start to have some company if you decided to go with 1NT.

An alternative combo would be a hand with 5 diamonds and 4 hearts, due to the touching
nature of diamonds and hearts, you may have trouble showing your shape / strength

[thepossum]

jillybean, on 2025-January-29, 09:42, said:

Hi, you are playing stock standard, 15-17nt, matchpoints, club bridge.
I don't want any fancy systems or treatments
I would like you to give reasons why you would or wouldn't open 1nt with this hand.
Thanks.

---

I'm probably going to reverse, although accept it is borderline for that

Failing that still open 1 club and use NT later

I don't like two vulnerable suits

I happily break rules on doubletons and singletons if I have a chance of a stop

If I have a very strong spade suit I would even prefer 1M. Sorry 5 card major people. That suit is not good enough to get away with it but still better than some 5 card suits

And I think it's too good to risk a pass

[TylerE]

Easy 1N for me. Any other bid is going to go very wrong because opener "can't have a 1NT hand".

[steve2005]

mw64ahw, on 2025-January-29, 12:32, said:

I'd say on it's own the hand's playing strength is at best a 16

K&R gives hand 17.65 rating
My first glance without counting, it looked too good as the long black suits have prime cards

[smerriman]

I would also open 1♣ due to it looking a bit too good for 1NT, and having a 1♠ rebid.

P_Marlowe, on 2025-January-29, 09:49, said:

#2 Opening 1NT with 5422 is usually done to avoid being forced to decide between making / not making a reverse bid,
the given hand is an easy reverse bid hand, so why not show the shape and the strength

I don't follow this. If you open 1♣, you're extremely likely to hear a 1♦ or 1♥ response. How are you making a reverse bid to show the shape and strength - neither 1♠ nor 2♠ is a reverse. I'd still do it, just don't see how it's related to reversing. With hearts instead of spades, definitely.

[jillybean]

smerriman, on 2025-January-29, 17:48, said:

I would also open 1♣ due to it looking a bit too good for 1NT, and having a 1♠ rebid.


I don't follow this. If you open 1♣, you're extremely likely to hear a 1♦ or 1♥ response. How are you making a reverse bid to show the shape and strength - neither 1♠ nor 2♠ is a reverse. I'd still do it, just don't see how it's related to reversing. With hearts instead of spades, definitely.

What are you bidding after 1♣ 1♥ ?

[jillybean]

It's always interesting to read the various comments, thanks.

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[smerriman]

jillybean, on 2025-January-29, 19:24, said:

What are you bidding after 1♣ 1♥ ?

2NT, probably a bad idea, but hey.

[jdiana]

jillybean, on 2025-January-29, 19:40, said:

It's always interesting to read the various comments, thanks.

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Still 1♣ for me. I have no problem reversing into hearts, i.e., 1♣-1♠-2♥ or 1♣-1NT-2♥. I don't know what problem you solve by opening 1NT. But I also don't see as much value in these hands as others do.

P.S. I didn't notice at first that we had dropped a point compared to the original hand. But it doesn't change my answer.