[thepossum]

Simple obvious descriptive bidding gets the right contract with those hands most of the time. I see a lot of supposed experts overthinking and confusing people unnecessarily

I think I blame it on pairs

I thought that was what you said earlier. 1 club etc. bid your hand you said Mike. I agrred with you or was relieved I had picked your approach

1 club then etc

I was using dealer with a wide range of possible hands - and a wonderful range of possible contracts from minor major games, part scores, occasional slams, and often a NT game or part score too
Flip the majors and same with heart games and part scores.
Simple

I did not check which were the best contract though and how they score in the rough and tumble of duplicate
Do I need to list out the very simple and obvious bidding sequences in 2/1 with a wide range of hands

1C-3C pass
1C-1H-1S etc
1C-2C etc
1C-1NT etc
1C-2NT etc

oops
1C-1S-3S-4S etc

Lots of other equally simple options - sometimes part scores, sometimes games, sometimes even a slam

[jillybean]

Obviously a lot of that was directed at me. A long time poster, still using keycard to explore for slams

You mention players wanting to get better but never unlearning bad habits, or seemingly wanting to.
There are many other extenuating factors; such as partnerships, exposure to expert play, time.


Unfortunately, it seems that most club bridge is poor. This week I observed my ops bidding 1S 4C* Etc to 6S-2 The 4C bidder then explained to his “ newbie opponents” how it was the correction auction and it was the bad break that caused them to go down.
I simply kept quiet. Thankfully, due to the expert advice given here, I know that this guy is talking from his other orifice. This is where players are learning the game.

Partnerships, time. It’s hard to find a good partner, and without the time to commit to a partnership, you are left floundering with various, inexperienced partners where the only way to go forward after 1M 2M is gerber. The option is bad bridge or no bridge.

You’ve spoken before of the good old days when a group of experts and hangeroners would head to the local pizza restaurant after the game, drink beer, eat pizza and discuss hands.
I wish this was still something that happened now.

I could go on but I’ll end my rant here

[Cyberyeti]

steve2005, on 2025-January-29, 17:24, said:

K&R gives hand 17.65 rating
My first glance without counting, it looked too good as the long black suits have prime cards

I stayed out of this discussion because I play a system that handles this type of hand better, but my perception was that this was too good for 1N.

[thepossum]

I'm just ignoring the tedious predictable Mike obnoxiousness

I actually agreed with him but he still can't help himself

Maybe he needs a better psych or is a just a lost cause to the human race
Some people are beyond help despite years trying to help him

Seriously to be so insecure and vindictive and run a vendetta for who knows how many years now

I have come across people who think they are experts and hate other people who know what they are talking about and have the confidence to say it. But personal attacks on that scale from day one over so many years now is pathetic
He never has the basic guts to acknowledge I offer very similar advice and bidding to him. He must hate that

Spent my life working with world experts. The things most share are calm confidence and humility and the ability to make others feel good and not be a bully and humiliate

Another bit of meta advice. Who knows what I am an expert I if anything after all these years. Confusing complexity with level of ability is a serious mistake

Most things genuinely have a few basic principles and once you grasp them all you need is a few simple methods combined with judgement

Never moved beyond rubber bridge myself. Why care about which game you bid

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2025-February-01, 10:04, said:

Obviously a lot of that was directed at me. A long time poster, still using keycard to explore for slams

You mention players wanting to get better but never unlearning bad habits, or seemingly wanting to.
There are many other extenuating factors; such as partnerships, exposure to expert play, time.


Unfortunately, it seems that most club bridge is poor. This week I observed my ops bidding 1S 4C* Etc to 6S-2 The 4C bidder then explained to his “ newbie opponents” how it was the correction auction and it was the bad break that caused them to go down.
I simply kept quiet. Thankfully, due to the expert advice given here, I know that this guy is talking from his other orifice. This is where players are learning the game.

Partnerships, time. It’s hard to find a good partner, and without the time to commit to a partnership, you are left floundering with various, inexperienced partners where the only way to go forward after 1M 2M is gerber. The option is bad bridge or no bridge.

You’ve spoken before of the good old days when a group of experts and hangeroners would head to the local pizza restaurant after the game, drink beer, eat pizza and discuss hands.
I wish this was still something that happened now.

I could go on but I’ll end my rant here

I was t aiming at any one individual. Literally, I had nobody specific in mind at any time. I was making perhaps unkind or I’ll advised comments about habits I’ve noticed from an extremely large number of players over many, many years. Some players here exhibit some of them. I exhibit some of them from time to time…stubbornly clinging to inferior methods is definitely something I’ve done on occasion, is one. I apologize to anyone who felt singled out.

If yiu recognize yourself in any part of my rants/expositions try to take it as intended….to consider where my post was valid and whether you should consider changing. I stress…’consider’. There are good players who disagree with me, and I’m not claiming any ‘authority’ that somehow makes my views infallible

[mikl_plkcc]

I never open 1NT with 4225.
I seldom open 1NT with a 5-card major. I will only consider it if the major is 5 small cards and all the HCPs are in the other 3 suits.
I don't normally open 1NT with a good 5-card minor to avoid missing safer minor partscores than risking 1NT going down with an unstopped doubleton.

The vast majority of my 1NT is 4333 or 4432.

[smerriman]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-February-02, 14:43, said:

I never open 1NT with 4225.
I seldom open 1NT with a 5-card major. I will only consider it if the major is 5 small cards and all the HCPs are in the other 3 suits.
I don't normally open 1NT with a good 5-card minor to avoid missing safer minor partscores than risking 1NT going down with an unstopped doubleton.

The vast majority of my 1NT is 4333 or 4432.

If you hold a 3532 16-count with HCP in hearts, open 1♥ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

If you hold a 2425 15-count, open 1♣ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

(Actually want to know, I know some people don't like to open 1NT but it seems to leave you in an impossible situation more often than not, so I've never understood how it can work.)

[mike777]

 smerriman, on 2025-February-02, 15:00, said:

If you hold a 3532 16-count with HCP in hearts, open 1♥ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

If you hold a 2425 15-count, open 1♣ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

(Actually want to know, I know some people don't like to open 1NT but it seems to leave you in an impossible situation more often than not, so I've never understood how it can work.)

Fwiw there is an answer, it is just an answer people don't like.
Roth wrote about it decades ago.
You start by passing weaker hands, shifting suits with non minimums if you do open rebidding suits with a Roth minimum. I think Roth would open NT with some 5 card majors..if you want add on 16-18 NT openers... Add on 2/1 nongf etc etc.. At that point bridge players said no.

[helene_t]

smerriman, on 2025-February-02, 15:00, said:

If you hold a 3532 16-count with HCP in hearts, open 1♥ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

If you hold a 2425 15-count, open 1♣ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

(Actually want to know, I know some people don't like to open 1NT but it seems to leave you in an impossible situation more often than not, so I've never understood how it can work.)

In stone age Acol (and, I pressume, contemporary versions of SA), 1NT was not mandated by the system for any hand. You just open 1NT when you feel like, but a 1suit opening was always allowed. I read some memories from a journalist who covered a World Cup in the 1950s (I think, it might have been earlier). There were natural bidders who never opened 1NT, or who played a 20-22 1NT opening. We have a few pairs playing such systems in the local club, still.

The 1NT rebid ladder could be something like 13-16, 17-18, 19-20. No need to open 1NT.

A few years ago, Gerben posted such a system, intended for beginners who would eventually modify it to something like Forum-D. But in Gerben's system, 1NT is artificial and forcing while 2♣ is natural and weak.

It may not be mainstream anymore, and it may not be very good, but it is no secret how it works.

[mycroft]

You make the least lie.

• Playing K/S and a lot of strong NT/SA style, 1♥-1♠; 1NT is 12-17 (15-17 if 5♥332). You deal with it. You're behind in that auction to those who have a better range, but you don't end up in 3NT= (or 3NT-1, shh) with 4♥ trivially on (or, more likely because tools, 1NT making 6-8 tricks with 2 or 3♥ trivially making 140). We/they are ahead of you slightly on a 1NT opening, because they don't have to commit a slot/pattern to "what if partner has a 5cM" and can 1NT-3NT a lot more often.
  
• Some will freely raise on 3 with a 35(32) hand, even if the doubleton is solid. They have tools for working that out, too.
  
• With the 2425, some will rebid 2♥ even with a minimum (I don't know how that works either). Some bid 1NT. Some bid 2♣ and pretend they're 2416. All of those have downsides; all of those will miss heart games, and get to bad contracts checking for heart games that aren't there. But 1NT making 6-8 tricks with 3♥ on again...

For you, the least lie is 1NT. And since that is a very specific bid, you can loosen it up a bit and not lose much. But also, because the systems after 1NT are based on it being a very specific bid, they are more fragile to "loosening" than other places, and need more structural work to "not lose much".

But that's how it works for those who can't/won't/don't do that.

[mikl_plkcc]

smerriman, on 2025-February-02, 15:00, said:

If you hold a 3532 16-count with HCP in hearts, open 1♥ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

If you hold a 2425 15-count, open 1♣ and partner responds 1♠, what is your next bid?

(Actually want to know, I know some people don't like to open 1NT but it seems to leave you in an impossible situation more often than not, so I've never understood how it can work.)

For the first case, it depends on where my points are. If my ♥ are AKQJT I will make a lie and rebid 2♥, but most likely I'll just bid 1NT and hope that my partner will bid a minor, then I can rebid my ♠, otherwise we don't have a major fit anyway and should stay as low as possible.

For the second case, again, we don't have a major fit again so depends on the suit quality, I either rebid 2♣ (a minor suit rebid only promises 5) or 1NT if my doubletons are stopped.

[smerriman]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-February-03, 13:54, said:

For the first case, it depends on where my points are. If my ♥ are AKQJT I will make a lie and rebid 2♥, but most likely I'll just bid 1NT and hope that my partner will bid a minor, then I can rebid my ♠, otherwise we don't have a major fit anyway and should stay as low as possible.

OK, thank you. The danger with this approach is that partner has something like a balanced 9-10 count so you have an easy 3NT but they have to pass your 1NT rebid in case you only have 12-14. But perhaps this is handled by the rest of your system.

[Bad_Wolf]

As always I find Mike and Adam's posts informative and persuasive.

Worth a mention is that 1C with this shape can sometimes leave you awkwardly placed in the face of red suit bidding by the opps; 1C-(1D)-1H-(3D) for example. Even 1C-(1H)-can occasionally be awkward if pard does not have 4S.

Personally I decide based on texture and vulnerability.