[AL78]

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MPs, playing Benj Acol (4CM, weak NT), 2♦ is a good 9+ HCP. What do you do now?

[jillybean]

Does 2D promise a rebid? And it shows diamonds ?

[AL78]

jillybean, on 2025-February-01, 15:12, said:

Does 2D promise a rebid? And it shows diamonds ?

Yes it shows diamonds and no it doesn't promise a rebid. If I bid 2♠ for example partner can pass with a minimal 9 or bad 10 count.

[Cyberyeti]

What arrangements are being played ? what is 4♦ ? forcing ? minorwood ?

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-February-01, 16:14, said:

What arrangements are being played ? what is 4♦ ? forcing ? minorwood ?

Agreements were minimal, we haven't played together for a couple of years and she doesn't like being burdened with a lot of agreements. 4♦ is natural and forcing, slam interest. We have 4NT available as RKCB.

[mw64ahw]

I hope 3♠ is forcing.

[AL78]

mw64ahw, on 2025-February-01, 16:59, said:

I hope 3♠ is forcing.

Yes, 3♠ is forcing to game.

[jillybean]

3C

[mikeh]

Seems pretty simple to me. Admittedly I’d never have the auction since I always play 2/1. But assuming 2D promises 5 (realizing as I type this that it may not but surely nobody bids 2 D with Qxxx) we keycard

I can’t think of a single sequence where we don’t end up keycarding at some point. xxx xxx KQxx xxx will usually be safe in 5D and the more likely minimums with xx Kxx Kxxxx QJx….I have to swallow hard to imagine that’s 2D would be very unlucky to fail. Meanwhile x xxx KJxxx Axxx is a decent slam and who’d cuebid over 4D?

Jb…..never, ever conceal huge primary support. 3C shows spades and clubs. No matter what you do next, partner will never play you for good diamonds. Bid your hand. Tell partner what you have. Don’t make up bids when you have a clear forcing raise…if you don’t like 4N, bid 4D

Bidding is a dialogue. You can’t expect partner to cooperate intelligently when you lie to her.

Picture 1S 2D 3C 3N. If you bid 4N, its quantitative. If you bid 4D you show a big hand with 5=1=3=4 shape.

And so on. I know you play with partners who often don’t know how to bid in cooperative auctions, but they’re never going to improve if you don’t try yourself. Quit masterminding. It’s bad for you and bad for partner.

As for rebidding spades, sure 3S is forcing but….same comments as I addressed to jb.

Meanwhile, opposite 3 keycards, we bid grand unless 2D could be 4 cards in which case we ask for the queen.

[jillybean]

I find this a little ironic, we are launching into keycard opposite a "good 9" , but I see we can always retreat to 5D

[smerriman]

 jillybean, on 2025-February-01, 19:26, said:

I find this a little ironic, we are launching into keycard opposite a "good 9" , but I see we can always retreat to 5D

It goes to show how powerful this is, opposite 2 keycards you're almost cold for slam, and that's only a 7 count, let alone a good 9.

[jillybean]

smerriman, on 2025-February-01, 19:37, said:

It goes to show how powerful this is, opposite 2 keycards you're almost cold for slam, and that's only a 7 count, let alone a good 9.

Yes, I’m looking forward to seeing the hand.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2025-February-01, 19:26, said:

I find this a little ironic, we are launching into keycard opposite a "good 9" , but I see we can always retreat to 5D

Why is it ironic? Why not look at playing strength, fit, potential for tricks. You shouldn’t worry about hcp. As I’ve tried to say so many times, hcp don’t take tricks. Cards do. Give the opps the ‘right’ 15 count and 7D is cold. Why can’t you see that?

The only things you need to know are side aces and the diamond KQ. Guess what information keycard provides

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2025-February-01, 21:43, said:

Why is it ironic? Why not look at playing strength, fit, potential for tricks. You shouldn’t worry about hcp. As I’ve tried to say so many times, hcp don’t take tricks. Cards do. Give the opps the ‘right’ 15 count and 7D is cold. Why can’t you see that?

The only things you need to know are side aces and the diamond KQ. Guess what information keycard provides

I can see that. It light of recent posts, I'm bending over backwards not to use 4nt as a slam try.

I realize this hand is the perfect hand to keycard. if we change the hand a little, move ♠3 to the heart suit.
1♠ 2♦ 3♣ 3nt 4♦ does 3♣ become an advanced cue?

[thepossum]

AL78, on 2025-February-01, 14:51, said:

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MPs, playing Benj Acol (4CM, weak NT), 2♦ is a good 9+ HCP. What do you do now?

4C splinter? Get a 4 heart control Voila

I know it's MPs

[AL78]

Some good responses here. To answer Mikeh's question, 2♦ could be a four card suit. In an Acol system, if a 2/1 response always promises five cards, you have no good bid on 10+ HCP balanced hands with no support or five card suit where you don't want to blast 3NT.

I respoect Mikeh's reasoning for using keycard, but I like to avoid using that immediately, especially with a minor fit where you can end up forced to a thin slam which will get you a bottom if it goes down. I bid 4♦, slam interest, hoping we could start cue bidding. What happened was so bad it was almost funny, it was entirely my fault and a demonstration that there is luck in duplicate bridge:

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I had a lapse of concentration and incorrectly counted the ♠K as a keycard hence my response. When partner bid 5♦ I wasn't sure if I should bid six with three or partner was signing off because three was not enough. The latter shouldn't apply because if three key cards is not enough, she shouldn't be bidding it but I passed anyway. It was when the opening lead was made I realised what I had done and had to apologise to partner when I tabled the dummy.

She wasn't happy at the potential missed slam but when she played for the drop which fails, she only made 11 tricks anyway. That was a 58% board to us which if there was any justice should have been a bottom. If I make the correct response of 5♥, two keycards and no ♦Q, we are forced to slam and get a joint bottom on the same line of play.

[thepossum]

I am curious that North passed!

[Cyberyeti]

thepossum, on 2025-February-03, 18:29, said:

I am curious that North passed!

Agree, and the losing action against the auction we would have which would start 1♠-2♣-2♦, now partner has to find the club lead blind against 6♦ to cause a problem or to avoid the overtrick in 5.

To MikeH it is very standard in modern acol to respond 2♦ on 4 as 2♥ is always 5 and 2N is often a raise, so what do you do with xx, AKQx, Qxxx, xxx ? (2♣ would be a suit ostensibly, and tends to only get faked on 3433, where you don't raise as the opener can be 4)

[Tramticket]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-February-04, 04:43, said:

what do you do with xx, AKQx, Qxxx, xxx ?

A more extreme exampole might be: xxx AKxx KJ10 xxx. You might respond 2♣, but if I am going to invent a three-card minor, I might as well show the one where I have some values and bid 2♦.

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2025-February-04, 06:58, said:

A more extreme exampole might be: xxx AKxx KJ10 xxx. You might respond 2♣, but if I am going to invent a three-card minor, I might as well show the one where I have some values and bid 2♦.

We always bid 2♣, 2♦ is ALWAYS 4