[harikannan]

All red, at IMPS, I hold:

Qxxx
xx
AK9x
QTx

My partner deals and opens 1C, which is immediately overcalled 1H. I double and next opponent preempts to 3H. Two passes and here i am. What is my bid?

[Cyberyeti]

I would double again

[harikannan]

Say i double and is passed to partner with:

JTx
Kx
Txx
AKJ8x.

Should he bid 4C because of suspect HK or when should he pass it for penalty?

[Cyberyeti]

I wouldn't be in this position (weak no trumper), at IMPs I'd remove, whether to 3♠ or 4♣ I'm not sure.

[DavidKok]

harikannan, on 2025-April-22, 08:52, said:

Say i double and is passed to partner with:

JTx
Kx
Txx
AKJ8x.

Should he bid 4C because of suspect HK or when should he pass it for penalty?

---

I think pass is the long term winner. To me the main two options are pass and 3NT, with 4♣ being a distant third candidate.
First, lets consider some pieces of information:

• Partner likely has exactly 4 spades, meaning we have a 7-card (mis)fit in that suit.
  
• Partner likely has 1-2 hearts, meaning the opponents have a 9-10 card fit in that suit.
  
• Partner's second double claims the balance of strength. Likely they are not making 3♥.

This doesn't suggest an action on its own, but gives us some context clues. I don't think the total trumps on this deal are at least 19 - opponents likely have a 9-card fit, and with our side suit misfit in spades we likely don't have a 9(+)-card fit of our own. Definitely not in diamonds, and we may have one in clubs but it's not that probable. Furthermore, with some defence in hearts and defensive AK in clubs it's fine to be conservative even if we do have such a fit. Bidding 4-over-3 is likely bad, unless partner can convert it to game or slam while 3♥ doesn't go down enough.
With GF hands with 5m4♠ it is partnership agreement here whether to bid the suits one-by-one or to start with a negative double - I think doubling is most common. In that case partner was under pressure over 3♥ since they likely did not want to bypass 3NT. We may miss a good club game or slam if we pass here.
However, if club game or slam makes, partners pointed suits must be pretty good. Because of our side suit misfits those tricks likely also come in on defence, so 3♥X should go for a number. At IMPs especially, if pass is losing it's normally not losing by much. Conversely, if pass is winning it can win by a lot - we might not make anything higher than 3♥, converting a solid plus into a minus.
Lastly 3NT - this is the one contract that scores well when made and also does not require going to the 4-level. We also have a stop. The problem is that it's only a single stopper, so even if the clubs run we still need 3 quick tricks from partner. I think that's the least bad of the non-pass gambles to take, but I think it's against the odds. If my hearts were better, say AQ or AK, I would consider it more seriously. As is, I'd rather defend.

[mikl_plkcc]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-April-22, 09:01, said:

I wouldn't be in this position (weak no trumper), at IMPs I'd remove, whether to 3♠ or 4♣ I'm not sure.

DavidKok, on 2025-April-22, 09:15, said:

---

I think pass is the long term winner. To me the main two options are pass and 3NT, with 4♣ being a distant third candidate.
First, lets consider some pieces of information:

• Partner likely has exactly 4 spades, meaning we have a 7-card (mis)fit in that suit.
  
• Partner likely has 1-2 hearts, meaning the opponents have a 9-10 card fit in that suit.
  
• Partner's second double claims the balance of strength. Likely they are not making 3♥.

This doesn't suggest an action on its own, but gives us some context clues. I don't think the total trumps on this deal are at least 19 - opponents likely have a 9-card fit, and with our side suit misfit in spades we likely don't have a 9(+)-card fit of our own. Definitely not in diamonds, and we may have one in clubs but it's not that probable. Furthermore, with some defence in hearts and defensive AK in clubs it's fine to be conservative even if we do have such a fit. Bidding 4-over-3 is likely bad, unless partner can convert it to game or slam while 3♥ doesn't go down enough.
With GF hands with 5m4♠ it is partnership agreement here whether to bid the suits one-by-one or to start with a negative double - I think doubling is most common. In that case partner was under pressure over 3♥ since they likely did not want to bypass 3NT. We may miss a good club game or slam if we pass here.
However, if club game or slam makes, partners pointed suits must be pretty good. Because of our side suit misfits those tricks likely also come in on defence, so 3♥X should go for a number. At IMPs especially, if pass is losing it's normally not losing by much. Conversely, if pass is winning it can win by a lot - we might not make anything higher than 3♥, converting a solid plus into a minus.
Lastly 3NT - this is the one contract that scores well when made and also does not require going to the 4-level. We also have a stop. The problem is that it's only a single stopper, so even if the clubs run we still need 3 quick tricks from partner. I think that's the least bad of the non-pass gambles to take, but I think it's against the odds. If my hearts were better, say AQ or AK, I would consider it more seriously. As is, I'd rather defend.

At IMPs, we can't take the risk of 3♥x making so removing it to 4♣ is the only option, as there is a guaranteed fit. 3NT is not an option because we don't have a stopper in ♥.

At MPs, in terms of offence, partner has exactly 4 ♠, 1 to 2 ♥, and about 7 to 8 cards in the minors. Partner is also unlikely to have 4 ♣ or 5 ♦ (otherwise he would have bid it) so the overall shape is likely 4=2=4=3. Bidding 4♣ with an 8-card fit and about 25 HCPs is likely going to make, so it now becomes the question of if we can set them off 1 or 2. If we want to set them 2, we need 6 tricks. I have 2 sure tricks in ♣, a half-trick in ♥, and very likely a trick in ♠ given the misfit, so I need partner to give me 2 1/2 tricks to get us into 6, which is possible but isn't guaranteed. However, the LoTT favours passing instead of bidding (the total is 17 so if we can make 4♣, we can pass them for -2; if they can make 3♥x, we can only make 2♣) so I think I will pass and take the chance.

[smerriman]

 mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-22, 11:06, said:

At IMPs, we can't take the risk of 3♥x making so removing it to 4♣ is the only option, as there is a guaranteed fit. 3NT is not an option because we don't have a stopper in ♥.

???

3nt is an option because we have a stopper in ♥, but I would pass as 4♣ is too risky.

[DavidKok]

smerriman, on 2025-April-22, 13:58, said:

???

3nt is an option because we have a stopper in ♥, but I would pass as 4♣ is too risky.

mikl_plkcc has a personal definition of 'stopper' that differs from how it is used in bridge. I would not worry about it much.

[apollo1201]

 DavidKok, on 2025-April-23, 01:16, said:

mikl_plkcc has a personal definition of 'stopper' that differs from how it is used in bridge. I would not worry about it much.

Would KT qualify!? That is the question😁😁

[mikl_plkcc]

 smerriman, on 2025-April-22, 13:58, said:

???

3nt is an option because we have a stopper in ♥, but I would pass as 4♣ is too risky.

Where is the stopper? It is extremely likely that the ♥A is over the ♥K so the ♥ will run.

[smerriman]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-23, 16:44, said:

Where is the stopper? It is extremely likely that the ♥A is over the ♥K so the ♥ will run.

While you've made it abundantly clear that you will never change your mind on anything, here is a lesson on stoppers for anyone else willing to learn.

For example:

Quote

A Stopper is a holding in the opponents’ suit that allows us to win a trick when they attack that suit on opening lead (usually against a Notrump contact.)

or

Quote

A stopper that players commonly bid Notrump with is Kx. This is a holding that players know needs to be led into, so that it can play last to the opening trick. If Kx is put down on the dummy, to be led through at trick one, it is far less valuable and uncertain to be a stopper in the opponents’ suit.

or

Quote

When you have positional stoppers in the opponents’ suit you should strive to bid Notrump as quickly as possible, even when those stoppers are not perfect.

[hrothgar]

harikannan, on 2025-April-22, 07:26, said:

All red, at IMPS, I hold:

Qxxx
xx
AK9x
QTx

My partner deals and opens 1C, which is immediately overcalled 1H. I double and next opponent preempts to 3H. Two passes and here i am. What is my bid?

I think this depends on how light partner can systemically open
Also, to some extent whether or not you are playing a strong NT.

Opposite playing opposite a partner who open's light and is playing a strong NT, I think that pass is reasonable.
I wouldn't quibble with a double.

[hrothgar]

harikannan, on 2025-April-22, 08:52, said:

Say i double and is passed to partner with:

JTx
Kx
Txx
AKJ8x.

Should he bid 4C because of suspect HK or when should he pass it for penalty?

I'd take the double out.

I'd probably bid 3!S (and wouldn't expect any company), however

1. Getting a heart lead into my hand
2. Getting to ruff a heart or two in the short hand
3. Getting to run the clubs if the opponents pull trump for me

is all quite appealing

Would I prefer that the K♥ was in Spades? Absolutely

[harikannan]

Thanks to all who have given their views / reasoning. Regarding hrothgar's observations, the actual opening hand is the bare minimum in our system. I was torn between 4C and pass and chose the latter - didn't work out well, as you'd have guessed. Didn't consider 3S because I didn't forsee any ruffing in hearts because of the actual bidding.

[hrothgar]

harikannan, on 2025-April-23, 21:20, said:

Didn't consider 3S because I didn't forsee any ruffing in hearts because of the actual bidding.

I doubt many people would consider 3!S and I'm not sure that its right, but I play lots of Moysians and they can work well

[jillybean]

smerriman, on 2025-April-23, 16:48, said:

While you've made it abundantly clear that you will never change your mind on anything, here is a lesson on stoppers for anyone else willing to learn.

For example:
or
or

This caught my eye. As you know, I'm working with a bunch of players whom are keen to progress from kitchen to duplicate bridge.
We were going over responses after partner makes a negative double and I was thrilled when everyone bid 1nt holding no 4cM and ♦Qxx after 1C (1D) X (P)
I will send your link along to them.

[Cyberyeti]

hrothgar, on 2025-April-24, 03:31, said:

I doubt many people would consider 3!S and I'm not sure that its right, but I play lots of Moysians and they can work well

I suggested it above because there was every chance of 4 losers in clubs plus maybe a spade ruff, and leading a top spade from ♠AK ♥A might look attractive, but may well help you. I wasn't confident we were beating 3♥

[mike777]

harikannan, on 2025-April-22, 07:26, said:

All red, at IMPS, I hold:

Qxxx
xx
AK9x
QTx

My partner deals and opens 1C, which is immediately overcalled 1H. I double and next opponent preempts to 3H. Two passes and here i am. What is my bid?

Excellent problem ty for posting.

I will pass with this one, especially if we open light. Double is certainly reasonable.
Will play partner for 11-13 wk nt type hand.

[Cyberyeti]

I'm interested how much people think 1♣-1♥-X-3♥-3♠ shows both in terms of points and shape?

[mike777]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-April-24, 08:29, said:

I'm interested how much people think 1♣-1♥-X-3♥-3♠ shows both in terms of points and shape?

Great question.

If memory serves me, it asks partner to bid game if they have invitational range values, for me 12-13 total points or so.

In other words, 3s here shows about one step less than 16-18 standard jump rebid. Let's call it a good 13 to good 14 or so. Probably closer to a good to excellent 13 or so if you lean to opening lighter.