[H_KARLUK]

Say you believed that one of your opps at your local club continuously breaching ACBL Laws 73 (Communication) and 74 (Conduct and Etiquette).

So after you decided to fill a grievance form/petition and forwarded to Club Directors or Board members what would be a fair ruling? Thanks.

[hrothgar]

H_KARLUK, on May 12 2010, 04:49 PM, said:

Say you believed that one of your opps at your local club continuously breaching ACBL Laws 73 (Communication) and 74 (Conduct and Etiquette).

So after you decided to fill a grievance form/petition and forwarded to Club Directors or Board members what would be a fair ruling? Thanks.

Public shaming has a long and storied history here in the United States.

Why not force the offenders to wear some kind of symbol that identifies that they have transgressed societal norms? Perhaps an embroidered symbol or letter in a bright color. Scarlet stands out well...

On a more serious note...

Why would you think that the ACBL would ever want to get involved in what is most likely petty political squabbling in local club?

If the club owner sees a problem he/she is in the best position to deal with it.
If the club owner doesn't feel like dealing with it, find another place to play...

[helene_t]

Sounds like a case for David Burn.

[axman]

H_KARLUK, on May 12 2010, 08:49 AM, said:

Say you believed that one of your opps at your local club continuously breaching ACBL Laws 73 (Communication) and 74 (Conduct and Etiquette).

So after you decided to fill a grievance form/petition and forwarded to Club Directors or Board members what would be a fair ruling? Thanks.

The initial action is to request a ruling[s].

The relevant question is just who is the grievance against- a player; or the TD that has not done something about the player?

[TimG]

H_KARLUK, on May 12 2010, 08:49 AM, said:

Say you believed that one of your opps at your local club continuously breaching ACBL Laws 73 (Communication) and 74 (Conduct and Etiquette).

So after you decided to fill a grievance form/petition and forwarded to Club Directors or Board members what would be a fair ruling? Thanks.

In ACBL land, I think the appropriate "grievance form" would be a Player Memo properly submitted to the Unit Recorder, not to the club Director or Board Members.

Once submitted, a "fair" result is that the Recorder confirms receipt and follows up as he believes is appropriate. Submission of a Player Memo in no way guarantees a hearing.

If your local club has in place a similar process for filing complaints, I would expect them to do the same as the Recorder: consider the complaint and follow-up as they deem appropriate.

You should be careful, if your complaint involves an allegation of cheating (as through illegal communication) you should be aware that ACBL treats public accusations of cheating every bit as seriously as actual cheating.

If this is a matter of a pair repeatedly doing things like making a call followed by immediately folding their cards and writing down the contract to signal to partner that they hope the auction is over, you're best action is no action. These things are a part of ACBL club bridge and likely always will be.

[peachy]

I am not sure if this was a serious question or not, but let's assume for conversation's sake that it is.

Whatever, if any, action the Club Owner/Manager takes, it is best not called a ruling. If it bothers you and they are infracting the laws, call the TD when it happens, don't keep mentally "collecting evidence" week after week and getting angrier or more frustrated about it. Let it slide, or call the TD. Raising an issue like this in formal complaint to appropriate place is problematic. In ACBL, to publicly accuse someone of cheating is a serious offense and will lead the accuser into trouble.

Club bridge tends to have some regulars who have upgraded from kitchen table bridge and party bridge to club play. They don't attend tournaments and are oblivious to laws, regulations, or ethical obligations in the game. It is a common problem for which there is no easy fix. Trying to "reform" these players is difficult, like trying to teach a dog to eat with a fork and knife...

[kenrexford]

I don't even understand the question. What could possibly be deemed a "fair ruling" simply on the basis of an accusation without any evidence? What -- is the mere accusation enough that a ruling now will occur? I think you need to have something more than just a report to get a ruling.

[Phil]

TimG, on May 12 2010, 11:08 AM, said:

H_KARLUK, on May 12 2010, 08:49 AM, said:

Say you believed that one of your opps at your local club continuously breaching ACBL Laws 73 (Communication) and 74 (Conduct and Etiquette).

So after you decided to fill a grievance form/petition and forwarded to Club Directors or Board members what would be a fair ruling? Thanks.

In ACBL land, I think the appropriate "grievance form" would be a Player Memo properly submitted to the Unit Recorder, not to the club Director or Board Members.

Once submitted, a "fair" result is that the Recorder confirms receipt and follows up as he believes is appropriate. Submission of a Player Memo in no way guarantees a hearing.

If your local club has in place a similar process for filing complaints, I would expect them to do the same as the Recorder: consider the complaint and follow-up as they deem appropriate.

You should be careful, if your complaint involves an allegation of cheating (as through illegal communication) you should be aware that ACBL treats public accusations of cheating every bit as seriously as actual cheating.

If this is a matter of a pair repeatedly doing things like making a call followed by immediately folding their cards and writing down the contract to signal to partner that they hope the auction is over, you're best action is no action. These things are a part of ACBL club bridge and likely always will be.

Agree with all of this, although I don't think filing a PM constitutes an accusation of cheating.

[JoAnneM]

Having been both a club owner and Unit president I have a few observations. First, the club and the Unit are separate entities, neither having jurisdiction over the other, unless the Unit happens to own the club. Second, a club owner/manager can ban a player without stated reason as long as there is no discrimination involved. ACBL must be notified of the ban and the player is still allowed to play in any Unit games that are held at that club.

I can't imagine someone being banned or suspended without a stated reason. Usually there is a letter telling them they have been bad - causing people to quit the club, whatever. I also can't imagine banning or suspending someone just because one player turns in a list of grievances. However, when there is a problem player there is rarely just one person complaining. If everyone is happy with a certain player and only one person has a problem with them then there may be other issues at hand.

The proper procedure, in a club, is, if you have not seen adequate action from the director go directly to the club manager. In a club, management is who makes the decisions about who does and does not play.

[blackshoe]

And when the director is the club management?

[TimG]

Phil, on May 12 2010, 01:16 PM, said:

TimG, on May 12 2010, 11:08 AM, said:

H_KARLUK, on May 12 2010, 08:49 AM, said:

Say you believed that one of your opps at your local club continuously breaching ACBL Laws 73 (Communication) and 74 (Conduct and Etiquette).

So after you decided to fill a grievance form/petition and forwarded to Club Directors or Board members what would be a fair ruling? Thanks.

In ACBL land, I think the appropriate "grievance form" would be a Player Memo properly submitted to the Unit Recorder, not to the club Director or Board Members.

Once submitted, a "fair" result is that the Recorder confirms receipt and follows up as he believes is appropriate. Submission of a Player Memo in no way guarantees a hearing.

If your local club has in place a similar process for filing complaints, I would expect them to do the same as the Recorder: consider the complaint and follow-up as they deem appropriate.

You should be careful, if your complaint involves an allegation of cheating (as through illegal communication) you should be aware that ACBL treats public accusations of cheating every bit as seriously as actual cheating.

If this is a matter of a pair repeatedly doing things like making a call followed by immediately folding their cards and writing down the contract to signal to partner that they hope the auction is over, you're best action is no action. These things are a part of ACBL club bridge and likely always will be.

Agree with all of this, although I don't think filing a PM constitutes an accusation of cheating.

In some cases it would be, but it would not matter since it is not a public accusation. My caution was meant to warn against talking to club officials about the cheating, or raising a stink if the club officials didn't act upon a proper complaint. When cheating is involved, it is especially important to go through proper channels.

[TimG]

JoAnneM, on May 12 2010, 07:26 PM, said:

Having been both a club owner and Unit president I have a few observations. First, the club and the Unit are separate entities, neither having jurisdiction over the other, unless the Unit happens to own the club.

This is not quite true, is it? If a Unit Disciplinary Board suspends a player for 30 days, the player is suspended from club, unit, district, and national games, not just unit games.