[jillybean]

and what are your agreements?

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Partner opens 1nt (15-17) and RHO overcalls 3♥. Both vulnerable, IMPs

[gszes]

jillybean, on 2012-August-11, 18:04, said:

and what are your agreements?

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Partner opens 1nt (15-17) and RHO overcalls 3♥. Both vulnerable, IMPs

2 methods that work reasonably well but give up on a direct
penalty x

1. x is negative fits this hand perfectly 4 spades and game going values

2. 3n game going values no heart stop
x = game going values with heart stop
this methods would miss out on spade fit but comes up with a lot of
frequency and even gets in some good penalty x when p leaves it in.

you can also use this method to try and penalize 3h just dont be surprised
if to wants to play 3n depending on vulnerability.

like all systems there is no one bid gets everything and sometimes preempts work
if they didnt noone would ever preempt. Whatever your system make sure you can
do something when you have game forcing values.

[the hog]

X for takeout.

[han]

Dbl = 4+ spades (may be passed)
3S denies 4 spades, looking for 3NT
4C = diamonds
4D = clubs
4H = 6+ spades
4S = both minors

[jillybean]

han, on 2012-August-12, 02:33, said:

Dbl = 4+ spades (may be passed)
3S denies 4 spades, looking for 3NT
4C = diamonds
4D = clubs
4H = 6+ spades
4S = both minors

I like this. We play Dbl = 4+ spades and 3S 6+ spades so this is a huge improvement
and probaly means we should take another look at transfers/interference as a general rule.
Is 3N to play?

edit: we play neg doubles at both the 2&3 levels

[SteveMoe]

I like Negative doubles over (3-level) interference to our 1NT opening bids and overcalls. Some are less comfortable playing them at the 2-level but they are imminently workable. I would double with this hand. Bidding a Lebensohl 3N is not available here - the inference that responder has no Heart stopper is not active as responder did not have 2N available to "go slow".

[han]

jillybean, on 2012-August-12, 09:18, said:

I like this. We play Dbl = 4+ spades and 3S 6+ spades so this is a huge improvement
and probaly means we should take another look at transfers/interference as a general rule.
Is 3N to play?

Yes, 3NT is to play, I forgot the most important bid!

Playing negative doubles most people would play 3S as 5+ btw.

I think that switching 4C and 4D is probably a good idea, but these little things are marginal. If you or your partner is prone to forget such things, better not play them. However, if you often switch suits in similar auctions (for example, switch 3H and 3S after 1NT - (3D)), then it may make remembering it easier if you play it in all similar auctions. But again, this is all marginal and if you have an accident forgetting these conventions once a year, you are probably better off not playing them.

[Zelandakh]

Han's scheme has come up here before and have yet to see anyone better it. Another variation on the theme would be for 4NT to be the minors and 4♠ to be quantitative Baron; or for 4♠ to show 5+ clubs and 4+ diamonds and 4NT 4 clubs and 5 diamonds.

[han]

For us both 4S and 4NT show minors, 4S is stronger than 4NT.

[ahydra]

Out of interest, why switch clubs and diamonds (4C/4D)?

I play double for takeout over NT interference (albeit a weak NT) - prefer this to any kind of lebensohl nonsense. This hand fits perfectly for a X. (Hmm - is it "an X" since it's read as "an eks", or is it "a X" since it's read as "a double"? )

ahydra

[jillybean]

and so, how does the rest of it go?

1N (3H)
X 4 spades (can be passed)
3S denies spades, looking for stopper
3N to play
4C = diamonds
4D = clubs
4H = 6+ spades
4S = both minors (slammish?)
4N = both minors

1N (3S)
X 4 hearts
3N to play
4C = diamonds
4D = clubs
4S = 6+ hearts
4N = both minors

1N (3D)
X = one or both M (4cards)
3H = 5+ spades
3S = 5+ hearts
3N to play
4C = diamonds ?
4D = clubs

[han]

jillybean, on 2012-August-13, 07:37, said:

1N (3S)
X 4 hearts
3N to play
4C = diamonds
4D = clubs
4S = 6+ hearts

Note that 4S is higher ranking than 4H, so you don't want to play this. We play:

4C = diamonds
4D = hearts
4H = clubs
4S = minors

Quote

1N (3D)
X = one or both M (4cards)
3H = 5 spades
2S = 5 hearts
3H/3S = 6+
4C = diamonds
4D = clubs

2S is not a legal bid, and you don't really need a bid for diamonds when they bid 3D. We play:

3H = spades
3S = hearts
3NT = to play
4C = clubs
4D = both majors
4H, 4S = to play.

And over 3C:

3D = hearts
3H = spades
3S = diamonds
3NT = to play
4C = diamonds and a major
4D = both majors
4M = to play.

For most people I'd suggest playing double as negative and all simple suit bids as natural and forcing. Then after (3m) I'd play 4m as both majors, and after (3M) I'd play 4M as both minors, slam interest. This is a very reasonable structure, and not hard to remember. I like the structure I play, but I only play it with my regular partner with whom I play all serious events. With less regular partners with whom I spend less time discussing system I play more natural. It hasn't made a difference yet.


(Disclaimer: In Philly I was playing with a good but first time partner. It went 1D - (1S) - 2H. We both play with our regular partners that 2C shows hearts here, but both assumed we were not playing this with eachother. This time it cost 7 IMPs. However, since overcalls after suit openings are many times more frequent than jump overcalls after 1NT openings.)

[han]

I forgot: in the US it is quite standard to play afte 3C that 4D and 4H are transfers. I think that's good.

Also, 1NT - (3X) - 3Y shows 5+, not 6+.

[jillybean]

Thanks Han. Sorry, I was updating & correcting my original post as you were replying to it so the thread is out of whack now.