[Jinksy]

Thi dispute is based in a specific hand that I'll post below, but I'm most interested in the general question of what holdings you feel are worth encouraging from in isolation.

Partner leads the A of a suit and dummy puts down Qx. We play ace leads ask for reverse attitude, king for reverse count, so his lead is consistent with any plausible ace-headed holding from 3-5 cards (we rarely open 1N with 6-card minors).

What is the minimum club holding/in what circumstances would you encourage given the facts about the club suit? Ie can you make a general statement about how many clubs/what sort of club suit quality you need? Or is it more contextual? And in which case can you eg describe adjusted versions of the layout given below where you'd mark the boundary - ie give two similar hands on one of which you'd encourage, on one of which you'd discourage?

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(ETA Assume scoring is IMPs, and discount hands where you can prove one way or the other that a switch/continuation is needed to beat/give any chance of beating the contract - I'm interested in rules of thumb)

[Phil]

The T98 aren't exactly small cards in this context.

If you held JT9 wouldn't you play the J to show the T (and probably the 9 too?)

The same principle applies to T986. Furthermore if partner led from AK7xx, we need to start unblocking for a cashout. On the 2nd round I play the 9 from T98 and the 8 from T986.

Unfortunately I would also play the T from T98 and even 10-9 because for me the 8 is encouraging and the 9 categorically denies the T and hopefully partner can work things out.

[Jinksy]

Not sure I follow (somewhat drunk). You're saying that on the actual holding you'd play the T (discouraging), and the 8 on the second, unblocking/showing bottom of the sequence?

Re unblocking on the actual hand, I feel like if P had started with AK7xx and no very likely outside entry I'd expect him to (have) lead a small club rather than an honour, so it feels like it should be a secondary concern.

[Zelandakh]

Jinksy, on 2016-May-14, 17:08, said:

Not sure I follow (somewhat drunk). You're saying that on the actual holding you'd play the T (discouraging), and the 8 on the second, unblocking/showing bottom of the sequence?

Re unblocking on the actual hand, I feel like if P had started with AK7xx and no very likely outside entry I'd expect him to (have) lead a small club rather than an honour, so it feels like it should be a secondary concern.

I think Phil is saying that for him the ten here would be an honour, showing top of a sequence, rather than a high (discouraging) pip. FWiW, I would tend to agree with you about not leading the ♣A here from a ropey suit and not much else.

[SteveMoe]

There is a real possibility that you will block the suit if you play the ♣ 6 to any ♣ trick but the 4th one. I'd play the ♣10 to deny the J. Partner can figure out what's up from there. Having led the Ace, partner might as well continue regardless whether declarer holds Kx(x) or Jx(x). Any damage to our side is already done.

[Jinksy]

Steve/Phil (soberer now): to clarify, are you both intending to discourage? Even assuming P might have led from AK7xx, presumably playing the 8 to encourage would say nothing about the 9 (or 10)?

Or are you saying that attitude should basically be off when dummy hits (to be replaced with count if you didn't have a sequence to show?)?

If the latter, it wouldn't apply to our partnership - we have quite inflexible/rudimentary signals, and P will expect you to reliably give the signal asked for unless you've specifically discussed the position as an exception (which in this case you haven't). On that assumption, what card do you play?

Also, suppose you held T932, hence no risk of blocking. What card would you play then? And (going back to the original question), what minimal modification would persuade you to switch from discouraging/encouraging to the reverse?

[gwnn]

Jinksy, read this:

Quote

If you held JT9 wouldn't you play the J to show the T (and probably the 9 too?)

The same principle applies to T986.

Does it sound like he is indenting to discourage?

[Jinksy]

Redacted peevishness.

[gwnn]

It's not a question of my rhetoric, just reading other people's posts carefully before asking for "clarification". Phil just wants to show the 9 and possibly the 8 (edit - while denying the J). Partner can do what he/she wants with the information. It is crystal clear from his post. Zelandakh also explained this, without any rhetoric.

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2016-May-15, 07:20