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Simpler decision Competitive bidding

Poll: Simpler decision (11 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call after partner's double

  1. Pass (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 2NT (1 votes [9.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  3. 3C (10 votes [90.91%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 90.91%

  4. 3D (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. 3H (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 3S (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 3NT (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-September-12, 06:33

MP.



NS are playing 5-card majors with a semi-forcing 1NT response. A 1NT opening is 15-17, 2NT is 20-22, both exclude a 5-card major. Double is undiscussed.

Your call as South after partner's double?
Please answer the Poll and explain your reasoning here.
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#2 User is offline   FelicityR 

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Posted 2019-September-12, 06:45

Vulnerable overcalls against non-vulnerable opponents who have both bid are usually solid and sound. Low level doubles are usually for takeout. Hence 3
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#3 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-September-12, 07:07

We play lebensohl here, what's the range of 1N ? I bid 2N intending to pass 3 or 3 depending on the range.
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#4 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-September-12, 07:18

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-September-12, 07:07, said:

We play lebensohl here, what's the range of 1N ? I bid 2N intending to pass 3 or 3 depending on the range.


1NT opening 15-17, will insert in OP thanks.
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#5 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-September-12, 07:34

View Postpescetom, on 2019-September-12, 07:18, said:

1NT opening 15-17, will insert in OP thanks.


Not what I meant, was talking about my 1N response
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#6 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-September-12, 08:42

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-September-12, 07:34, said:

Not what I meant, was talking about my 1N response


5-11(12) and denies both hearts fit and 4-card spades.
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#7 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-September-12, 08:51

View Postpescetom, on 2019-September-12, 08:42, said:

5-11(12) and denies both hearts fit and 4-card spades.


In that case I bid 2N intending to pass 3, partner can bid something else if really big
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#8 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-September-13, 07:07

Thanks to those who replied so far. I hoped for a few more but I doubt they would change the result.

I just wanted a sanity check, because at the table South passed.
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#9 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2019-September-13, 08:26

I don't play Lebensohl in this situation. Partner's double shows extras likely the 15-17 balanced hand excluded from 1 NT.

So the bid I have to make is 3 . It's ambiguous, but allows opener to further describe his/her hand.

If I did play Lebensohl here, I'd continue with 2 NT and pass 3 just as I would had partner opened 1 NT with an intervening bid.

It's possible that partner could break the Lebensohl cycle with a bigger hand than the balanced 15-17.
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Posted 2019-September-13, 08:57

Here's the actual layout and full auction.



West's overcall was not up to Felicity's requirements, but neither East nor South had any reason to expect that.
NS picked up 800 for a top.
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#11 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2019-September-13, 10:31

If NS play penalty doubles here, North has a reasonable X at white vs. red and South with xxx and xx has no reason to disturb it. South should expect a good penalty, 800 is a bit lucky, but 500 should still be be a top or near top. But virtually everyone plays X here as takeout.
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#12 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-September-13, 10:55

View Postmikestar13, on 2019-September-13, 10:31, said:

If NS play penalty doubles here, North has a reasonable X at white vs. red and South with xxx and xx has no reason to disturb it. South should expect a good penalty, 800 is a bit lucky, but 500 should still be be a top or near top. But virtually everyone plays X here as takeout.


As you say, virtually everyone plays X here as takeout, or so I thought. The RA doesn't mandate or allow alerting of low level penalty doubles and NS had no system card. 500 would still have been 97%, 460 was 68% and 430 was 33%.
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#13 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2019-September-13, 15:50

N has the world's most normal 2N opener but has opened 1, so judgment of the auction is very difficult
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#14 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2019-September-14, 07:05

View PostCyberyeti, on 2019-September-13, 15:50, said:

N has the world's most normal 2N opener but has opened 1, so judgment of the auction is very difficult


And S has the world's most normal 3N response, after that it's just a question of whether they make +1 or +2.

The choice to open 1 might be linked to 2N range rather than an agreement not to open 2N with 5-card majors, which would be moderately unusual even here. Maybe they play 21-23 and N was being a walrus.
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