[Fluffy]

IMPS

N . - . S
1♠ - 1NT
3♣ - ??

♠92
♥K73
♦J972
♣KJ94

[whereagles]

3NT. The soft values in the reds drive me away from 4♣. If pard has a 55 he can always bid 4♣ himself, after which I'd be glad to oblige.

[Walddk]

4♣. Opener may have only 3 if he is too good to rebid 3♠, but in that case he will bid 4♠ next. No reason why he should bid 4♣ with 5-5 if I bid 3NT. This is all a matter of trust, and partner should believe that I have my values in the red suits if 3NT is my bid.

My diamonds are too shaky for that. I would rather rebid 3♠ than 3NT.

Roland

[PriorKnowledge]

Another "Why bother having a partner" hands.

Partner has bid 2 suits. Our first obligation is tell them which one we like best. Treating the 3C jump-shift as a relay to 3N makes no sense.

[whereagles]

PriorKnowledge, on Jun 7 2005, 03:09 PM, said:

Another "Why bother having a partner" hands.

Partner has bid 2 suits. Our first obligation is tell them which one we like best. Treating the 3C jump-shift as a relay to 3N makes no sense.

That you should give preference is a debatable point because you can hardly have 3 spades. Besides, you know opener has at best 20 points, so 3NT rates to be the top spot. Of course he can have

AKxxx
AQx
x
AQxx

but that's the magic hand - one out of many.

[PriorKnowledge]

If opener did not want us to raise clubs with club support, maybe opener should just bid 3N?

[scoob]

PriorKnowledge, on Jun 7 2005, 09:22 AM, said:

If opener did not want us to raise clubs with club support, maybe opener should just bid 3N?

i would have to agree, as my regular partner has a serious hard-on for NT contracts whenever possible. for him to bid this way indicates a seriously unbalanced hand. i will raise ♣ and expect continuation to go 4NT, 5C all pass, making and being very thankfull that this isn't MPs as i suspect he's 6/5 and 4♠+1 at several tables.

sigh

[whereagles]

PriorKnowledge, on Jun 7 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

If opener did not want us to raise clubs with club support, maybe opener should just bid 3N?

No.. he wants you to raise clubs on a good hand. Something like

x
Axx
J9xx
KJxxx

[Al_U_Card]

This is closer than it looks. 3S has merit, (as 3NT tends to deny a good doubleton)but the general value bid of 3NT (the 3C could be a 3 card suit) caters to pard being in the low end for his bid and needing a red suit stopper for 3NT.

[pclayton]

I watched this hand when Gonzalo played it and I thought he made a very imaginative bid and pre-apologized when he put dummy down. Very classy thing to do and reminded me of Fred when he has a difficult decision.

I'm going to punt with 3S. Pard may have a 5224 where 3N might be right, or have a true 2 suiter (5 or 6 clubs) or an invented jump shift with a GOSH where 4S or maybe a magic 6S might be the spot.

I will pass 3N, bid 4H over 4C or 4D (and continue with 5C over 4S) and pass 4S.

[whereagles]

Well.. I think the point is what is our notion of the following bids

1♠ 1NT
3♣ ..?

I would say...

3♦ = long diamonds, concern over the heart suit
3♥ = 5 cards. Trying to play 4♥ if opener has 5314/5305
3♠ = strong doubleton, concern over the red suits, especially hearts
3NT = natural, misfit. Concentration of values on the red suits
4♣ = good max, slammish hand for clubs
4♦ = strange bid. Would take it as club splinter if it happened at table
4♥ = as above
4♠ = 3 cards, weakish 4333 hand (prefered to bid 1♠-1NT to 1♠-2♠)

This is how I would see it. Of course other people see it differently and would respond differently to 3♣

[mike777]

whereagles, on Jun 7 2005, 10:19 AM, said:

PriorKnowledge, on Jun 7 2005, 03:09 PM, said:

Another "Why bother having a partner" hands.

Partner has bid 2 suits. Our first obligation is tell them which one we like best. Treating the 3C jump-shift as a relay to 3N makes no sense.

That you should give preference is a debatable point because you can hardly have 3 spades. Besides, you know opener has at best 20 points, so 3NT rates to be the top spot. Of course he can have

AKxxx
AQx
x
AQxx

but that's the magic hand - one out of many.

4C
Many top class players open 1S with more than 20HCP.

[Fluffy]

Actually I don't have these problem on my partnership because 2NT rebid is Gf, and 3♣ is 5-5 at least, but playing natural aproach....

I think 3♥ should be a 6 card suit or a very good 5 card one, expect it to be raised with 2.

BTW I forgot to say 1NT is forcing

[inquiry]

This is another reason why the "transfer preempt" that include a strong two suiter is good. Partner can not have a monster hand with both black suits. But, ok. The problem is how to bid this in standard.

First, was 1NT "forcing" or natual. For this answer I will assume natural. If 1NT was natural there is no reason for false prefernce. So the problem as it was, should you bid 4♣, forever bypassing 3NT, should you bid 3NT, or should you bid 3D. The way I play (with transfer preempts), 3NT is fairly clear shot here. But in standard, I would have to bid 4♣ and hope partner is not 5-3-1-4 or 5-1-3-4 with a stiff red honor hand lots of hcp. If he one of those hands, in standard, hopefully he would have just blasted 3NT. Anyway, if he has only 4C, 5C should be close to laydown, and 6C might have some play if we have enough keycards.

Ben

[HeartA]

4C. WTP?

[Winstonm]

Quote

You don't have a misfit, you have a great fit for partners suit and could easily have a DOUBLE fit or 9 card fit. You have half your points in clubs, a very very tenous diamond stop and a single heart stop. This isn't really a concentration I don't think...

Someone said it for me - again; problem is I've been in Canada on a Muskie fishing trip for the past two weeks; I come back to discover posts with my name on them and the sensuous fragrance of L'Oranger Neroli Eau de parfum lingering like the misty form of a siren over my keyboard.

Anybody have any ideas on what's going on?

WinstonM

[Double !]

I voted for other, (you don't want to know my bid) but would not raise clubs because of possibility of a manufactured 3C bid on a spade hand that's not good enough for a 2C opener. This whole sequence is a problem for a system that can't rebid 3 of suit and have the bid be forcing.

[Fluffy]

Come on, tell us, it can't be as marginal bid as my 4♠ bid was, nobody has followed :-(.